China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan • Hacker News Board

Re: China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan

#61

Post by knight17 » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 2:22 PM UTC

When this goes live, China will gain access to an Indian ocean port in Gwadar. This project runs through Gilgit-Baltistan and Kashmir; these are contested/disputed territory between India and Pakistan. China and India already have boundary disputes in Kashmir and in Arunachal/Tibet

More than an Indian ocean port (which could be blockaded by India in case of a war with either of Pakistan or China), this will connect China by road with Middle East Asia and other Central Asian states; China hopes this connectivity will boost trade in the future.

This project is undertaken with the intent to engage the excess capacity of the engineering firms that have grown and matured over the years with China's economic surge in the last three decades. These companies have the expertise, technology and project management expertise—to build roads, dams, bridges, tunnels, rails, trains, engines, steel, cement and myriad other things—but doesn't have any takers as they had earlier because of the economic slowdown in China.

Another reading is that China has lots of Capital which it can invest abroad but not at home. With the overheated economy at home it is wiser to redeploy it in countries with friendly disposition to Chinese investments.

If all goes well China can get a new avenue for its products. Even if none of it works it is not too bad, as China will get the host governments indebted. Sri Lanka[1], with its Hambantota port project, can be considered as an example.

[1]: http://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2016/11/17/sri-lanka...

Re: China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan

#62

Post by ethbro » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 2:22 PM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #46

ethbro wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in 2016 USA is arguably the most hated country in the world Let's agree to disagree on this, based on the fact that there are a number of countries with active civil wars and/or genocides.

i think you are missing the point of the parent - not many people care about genocide going on somewhere in the woods as long as it's not dangerously nearby (nothing to be proud of, but a natural part of being human these days). I don't know anybody who would literally 'hate' Rwanda, Burma, South Sudan or your former/current place of pick. now for rather unfortunate meddling into internal affairs of a given state - t…

> not many people care about genocide going on somewhere in the woods as long as it's not dangerously nearby

I'm going to take the somewhat cardboard American umbrage, but I think my position is a fair one.

For all of our American geopolitical intrigue and intelligence service &#@$ups, the United States generally does care.

In the sense that compared with other countries that could act, the United States chooses to do something.

Somalia was a failed state, but we were there trying to do what we thought was best. Iraq was run by a dictator who killed his own people (caveat: yes, domestic and international audiences were lied to about WMD facts), but we were there trying to do what we thought was best. Continental Europe was occupied by the Nazis, but we were there trying to do what we thought was best. Swathes of the Pacific were occupied by Imperial Japan, but we were there trying to do what we thought was best.

It's easy to say "That's an ocean away, doesn't concern us, and isn't our business." Even when people are being murdered or exploited. Nobody points a finger and says "Why didn't you act when it was happening?"

But if we're being honest and fair, then there's zero utility in comparing how well Switzerland is liked vs the US or Russia. It's a hell of a lot easier to make friends if you never enter a competition.

Re: China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan

#63

Post by tiatia » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 2:22 PM UTC

robert_foss wrote: post #57

tiatia wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is probably the nicest and most responsible super power ever. A super power like the Roman empire would have won the Afghanistan war for sure. But in a different way.

Even the nicest mass murderer is still a mass murderer.

I don't think the US did mass murder in Afghanistan. This was part of the problem. The Romans would have just made a population reduction of XX% per year and things would have been fine. I think you should put your judgement into perspective.

Re: China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan

#64

Post by trelltron » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 2:32 PM UTC

binarray2000 wrote: post #51

spiderfarmer wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America’s overall image around the world remains largely positive. Across the nations surveyed (excluding the U.S.), a median of 69% hold a favorable opinion of the U.S., while just 24% express an unfavorable view. However, there is significant variation among regions and countries.[0] I think we can agree the US often acts like a douchebag and that it has a lot of passionate haters, but the fact is that there are…

NO! I am NOT talking here (and elsewhere) about US citizens! I am talking about US oligarchy. US people (on a personal level) are just like other people of the world: Most of them are good, some less that. And they themselves suffer from many problems the US oligarchy (through imperial means) causes outside of the US. Daughters and sons who go to US military, they are patriots who want to serve their country and its…

Nobody implied you were talking about US citizens.

The parent comment is valid when taking about the 'US oligarchy' too.

Re: China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan

#65

Post by enraged_camel » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 2:41 PM UTC

te_chris wrote: post #58

binarray2000 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoever downvoted you, it's their right. I upvoted you. I actually find your comment funny. But, please, don't compare me with Chomsky.

No, that would be quite insulting to Chomsky.

Wow, was this really necessary?

Re: China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan

#66

Post by coredog64 » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 2:50 PM UTC

tiatia wrote: post #63

robert_foss wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the nicest mass murderer is still a mass murderer.

I don't think the US did mass murder in Afghanistan. This was part of the problem. The Romans would have just made a population reduction of XX% per year and things would have been fine. I think you should put your judgement into perspective.

Decimation in the original sense of the word?

Re: China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan

#67

Post by fdsak » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 2:51 PM UTC

scaraffe wrote: post #56

The one thing the article doesn't mention is that some of the projects under this plan passes through the Pok (Pakistan Occupied Kashmir), which creates a precarious situation between India, Pakistan and China over Kashmir.

None of this goes through POK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azad_Kashmir), could you reference any? If you are thinking of Gilgit-Baltistan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgit-Baltistan), it got independence from Dogra Raj in 1948 after a short war, then the tug-of-war b/w Pakistan and India and rest is history.

Re: China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan

#68

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 2:57 PM UTC

tiatia wrote: post #50

spiderfarmer wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America’s overall image around the world remains largely positive. Across the nations surveyed (excluding the U.S.), a median of 69% hold a favorable opinion of the U.S., while just 24% express an unfavorable view. However, there is significant variation among regions and countries.[0] I think we can agree the US often acts like a douchebag and that it has a lot of passionate haters, but the fact is that there are…

The US is probably the nicest and most responsible super power ever. A super power like the Roman empire would have won the Afghanistan war for sure. But in a different way.

[deleted]

Re: China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan

#69

Post by tiatia » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 2:57 PM UTC

coredog64 wrote: post #66

tiatia wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the US did mass murder in Afghanistan. This was part of the problem. The Romans would have just made a population reduction of XX% per year and things would have been fine. I think you should put your judgement into perspective.

Decimation in the original sense of the word?

Yes. But decimation, as far as I know, was something the Romans did to their own divisions for "unsatisfactory" services. But regarding Afghanistan, if you crucify a few thousand men, women and children every day for the smallest offence, resistance breaks fast.

Re: China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan

#70

Post by rangibaby » Fri, Nov 25, 2016, 3:24 PM UTC

nikcub wrote: post #17

Another traditional US ally re-aligning itself between the two major spheres of influence. The balance will tip further in China's favor as the USA recedes further from global development. What's interesting is if you look at the parallel international institutions that China are developing that will compete with the IMF et al, many of the partners are traditional and very close allies of the United States. For ex. w…

Mao hated Khrushchev which meant that Soviet-Chinese relations were extremely hostile (actual battles were fought between soldiers of the two nations). India was aligned with the USSR, which made China and Pakistan natural allies. They have been close since then.