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Germany’s Chinese investment problem

politico.eu

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Re: Germany’s Chinese investment problem

#61

Post by daemin »

DasIch wrote: post #12
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will have to become more democratic and accountable to their population first. Up to now they have been able to buy off their middle classes with rising incomes, once that stops as it inevitably will those people will start calling for more representation.

The CP clearly believes that as long as growth is maintained and people's lives improve, there won't be any political resistance. I'm inclined to agree. We have a lot of examples of people protesting and calling for more representation when they're not doing well economically but do we have any examples, any evidence, any indication at all of people doing that when things go well economically? The potential loss of q…

When people are well fed and happy they don't see the need to up end the status quo. When there's no bread for people to eat then heads will roll. Therefore it will be interesting to see how long China can keep the growth up, and if there is ever a bust, what kind of change will happen. For all we know they could just go down the path of having a dictator of some form again.

Re: Germany’s Chinese investment problem

#62

Post by trinkgeld »

stupidcar wrote: post #30
simonh wrote: post #3

"Oh woe is us. Who will save us from downing in all this Chinese money." There were exactly the same concerns about Japanese investment back in the 80s. Now doing business with Japanese firms and companies like Sony owning major American firms is just natural. They're not weird alien creatures from space anymore, they're our business partners and investors. It's normal. The same will happen with China.

This seems to ignore the main objection. It's not that Chinese companies are investing in European economies, it's that these companies are run by the Chinese state, and that China is not providing reciprocal access to its own market to Western companies. This is not natural free-market activity, it is a state-sponsored effort to take technology and expertise from European companies and feed it into state-owned Chine…

[deleted]

Re: Germany’s Chinese investment problem

#63

Post by paradite »

curun1r wrote: post #44
bjshepard wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a plenty democratic place, I recommend coming and observing it with your eyes, asking people here questions, and assessing the history of the revolution yourself.

With all due respect... I have been there. I went on a business trip to visit our offshore development office in Beijing. A few of the devs went sightseeing with me one weekend and we ended up going to see the forbidden city. The cab dropped us off at Tienamen Square and I asked if we could spend some time there before going across the street. There was general consternation as to why I was interested in such a borin…

I don't understand why every single discussion about China has to touch this issue and this is the first thing people do when they visit China.

Do you talk to Germans by starting off discussing how Hitler killed millions of people? Do you talk to Japanese people about WW2 and how was the experience being bombed by nukes after saying hello? Do you expect non-US citizens to start talking to you about the massacres of indigenous peoples of the Americas during the first meeting?

You don't go to a country just to re-visit their dark history. Regardless of how bad the censorship is, that is just rude behavior. Show some respect first, if you are really interested, make friends with them, then talk about it, they'd be happy to discuss it with a friend but not a stranger.

Re: Germany’s Chinese investment problem

#64

Post by noir-york »

trinkgeld wrote: post #62
stupidcar wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to ignore the main objection. It's not that Chinese companies are investing in European economies, it's that these companies are run by the Chinese state, and that China is not providing reciprocal access to its own market to Western companies. This is not natural free-market activity, it is a state-sponsored effort to take technology and expertise from European companies and feed it into state-owned Chine…

[deleted]

What a ridiculous comment. The Chinese Communist Party has not found an "equilibrium" - it imposes it at gunpoint. Freedom of speech does not interfere with economic growth, it underpins it!

Re: Germany’s Chinese investment problem

#65

Post by cgvgffyv »

Roritharr wrote: post #37
stupidcar wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to ignore the main objection. It's not that Chinese companies are investing in European economies, it's that these companies are run by the Chinese state, and that China is not providing reciprocal access to its own market to Western companies. This is not natural free-market activity, it is a state-sponsored effort to take technology and expertise from European companies and feed it into state-owned Chine…

> The Chinese state will never be satisfied being one powerful economic actor amongst others, all playing by the rules of a global market. They will never accept being checked by laws of trade or other country's interests, any more than they will tolerate being checked by democratic accountability or rule of law. The same could be said about the US i guess. It's the EU that looks like a naive child on the World Stage…

> World Stage

Come again? Try switching off the news for a while.

The world doesn't need an elite to run, the plebes run it just fine.

There isn't a "World Stage".

Re: Germany’s Chinese investment problem

#66

Post by jhasse »

paradite wrote: post #63
curun1r wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect... I have been there. I went on a business trip to visit our offshore development office in Beijing. A few of the devs went sightseeing with me one weekend and we ended up going to see the forbidden city. The cab dropped us off at Tienamen Square and I asked if we could spend some time there before going across the street. There was general consternation as to why I was interested in such a borin…

I don't understand why every single discussion about China has to touch this issue and this is the first thing people do when they visit China. Do you talk to Germans by starting off discussing how Hitler killed millions of people? Do you talk to Japanese people about WW2 and how was the experience being bombed by nukes after saying hello? Do you expect non-US citizens to start talking to you about the massacres of i…

The difference is that if you start a discussion with Germans about Hitler, they will probably know more about it then you, because it gets taught in schools.

Re: Germany’s Chinese investment problem

#67

Post by Annatar »

Europeans won't buy Chinese goods because the quality is horrible, and they understand that by buying them, they would be making themselves poorer and jeopardize their own jobs and economy, even if they are the cheapest. So the only way for the Chinese to make inroads was to start buying European companies, and then infiltrate their goods into Europe that way. At least they will try, and in the long term, nothing short of major political interventions will stop them from eventually moving those jobs to China, where the labor is cheaper... cheaper for now.

I for one don't want to support oligarchs in People's Republic of China exploiting people who have to work 16 hour days for six days per week for low pay. We had that in Europe in the 19th century, and we learned that it leads to really low standard of living. It's exploitation.

Re: Germany’s Chinese investment problem

#69

Post by cinquemb »

jacobush wrote: post #35
simonh wrote: post #3

"Oh woe is us. Who will save us from downing in all this Chinese money." There were exactly the same concerns about Japanese investment back in the 80s. Now doing business with Japanese firms and companies like Sony owning major American firms is just natural. They're not weird alien creatures from space anymore, they're our business partners and investors. It's normal. The same will happen with China.

I hope so. But China is going to be a much larger thing to chew and swallow. Also Japan depended (and does) on "the West" for military protection. And military might ultimately sets the bounds for what you can get away with in trade.

Considering that "the West" is reliant upon China for cheap labor for high tech goods, as much as China is reliant upon exporting to "the West", and with global military powers at a MAD stalemate, I don't think that is much concern for the near future outside of elites figuring out how to maintain their own local monopolies and playing it off the public to get an advantageous deal.

Re: Germany’s Chinese investment problem

#70

Post by trinkgeld »

noir-york wrote: post #64
trinkgeld wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

What a ridiculous comment. The Chinese Communist Party has not found an "equilibrium" - it imposes it at gunpoint. Freedom of speech does not interfere with economic growth, it underpins it!

[deleted]
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