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Brew commands send data to Google Analytics

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Re: Brew commands send data to Google Analytics

#121

Post by mikemcquaid »

jakobegger wrote: post #117
tomchristie wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He might be a nice target if you want to raise a stink and litigate. * That Phone in your pocket? "No problem" * The browser you're using right now? "This is fine" * Your internet-enabled TV? "All good" * Open source project collecting usage metrics? "Woah, hold on there buddy" Get some perspective. They're completely transparent about which very limited usage metrics they use. You can inspect exactly which metrics…

They're completely transparent after they already took your data . Almost nobody notices that tiny notice. If they were transparent, they would ask you before transmitting data . Websites tracking you is expected. Local tools tracking you is not.

We do tell you before transmitting any data (as shown in the original comment).

Re: Brew commands send data to Google Analytics

#122

Post by jakobegger »

CJefferson wrote: post #7

I knew, and I was prompted. I can understand why this might upset people, but for me I hope it will make brew a better product. I'm sure we all know as developers how annoying it can be to not know the problems users have, and what they are using your software for -- that's why most websites have analytics. I'm hoping to add something similar to software I work on, with an opt-out of course. I believe it will help me…

I don't think you know what the word "prompt" means.

This is a prompt:

"Do you want Homebrew to enable anonymous aggregate user behaviour analytics (yes/no):"

This is not a prompt:

"Homebrew has enabled anonymous aggregate user behaviour analytics."

Re: Brew commands send data to Google Analytics

#124

Post by pvinis »

jakobegger wrote: post #117
tomchristie wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He might be a nice target if you want to raise a stink and litigate. * That Phone in your pocket? "No problem" * The browser you're using right now? "This is fine" * Your internet-enabled TV? "All good" * Open source project collecting usage metrics? "Woah, hold on there buddy" Get some perspective. They're completely transparent about which very limited usage metrics they use. You can inspect exactly which metrics…

They're completely transparent after they already took your data . Almost nobody notices that tiny notice. If they were transparent, they would ask you before transmitting data . Websites tracking you is expected. Local tools tracking you is not.

I prefer local tools tracking me. That means I use them, that's why they are installed. And I want them to get better. That's why I'm fine with them tracking me. A random website, though, I honestly don't care, but if I could choose, I would opt out. Makes sense, right?

Re: Brew commands send data to Google Analytics

#125

Post by blub »

"Your privacy has been trampled by pretty much everyone, why not accept one more? They're cute cuddly and open source, how could you refuse them access to your machine?"

This is essentially your pathetic argument. You should be ashamed of yourself, because you know that defaults matter, people don't read a small line of warning text in the console and this is ultimately yet another stab in the back.

Chad and Brad merrily screwing things up for the noble goal of improving their software through analytics: idlewords.com/talks/robot_armies.htm

Re: Brew commands send data to Google Analytics

#126

Post by raesene6 »

mikemcquaid wrote: post #121
jakobegger wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're completely transparent after they already took your data . Almost nobody notices that tiny notice. If they were transparent, they would ask you before transmitting data . Websites tracking you is expected. Local tools tracking you is not.

We do tell you before transmitting any data (as shown in the original comment).

I think the, valid, concern mentioned in the original comment is that the notification of this is not prominent enough.

Also Ideally I'd suggest you should be looking for informed consent before starting to gather information of this nature where an application previously did not do it.

Something similar to Debian's request to submit data for the package popularity ratings that is provided when you install debian might make sense.

Re: Brew commands send data to Google Analytics

#127

Post by mrmondo »

ProbabilityMoon wrote: post #100
mrmondo wrote: post #39

Quite honestly, I don't remember brew asking me this on any of my 3 macOS machines, I'm not saying it didn't, but the fact that I'm a 'techie' person and didn't notice or forgot about it worries me greatly.

It probably didn't. I run brew regularly on my machine, and I did not get any prompt asking me to enable analytics. From reading other comments, I see lots of users are in the same position, and homebrew sneaked this in with just a two line notice buried in the verbose output. This worries me deeply, to the point where I'm considering removing this software from my machine.

While I obviously feel the same way, I'd take a step back and see what Brew's response is to this thread / the backlash of what people want / don't want, because it has, overall been a good thing of macOS.

Re: Brew commands send data to Google Analytics

#128

Post by jakobegger »

jakebasile wrote: post #120

This really doesn't concern me at all. I don't feel I am harmed by Google possibly knowing what software I install, because if anyone wants to look I keep the script that installs it in my public dotfile repo on GitHub. Can anyone explain to me how this could be used against someone? I'm asking completely seriously as I don't see any harm in this no matter how hard I try. Edit: I do agree that the notice should be mo…

Oh... so you're installing Tor? And a Bitcoin client? You're starting to look a lot like a drug dealer.

Let's send a SWAT team and confiscate all your stuff just to make sure.

Re: Brew commands send data to Google Analytics

#129

Post by froh42 »

mikemcquaid wrote: post #118
froh42 wrote: post #38

As I didn't update brew for a long time I did not have the analytics version. So I upgraded to see what happens. In fact it did NOT prompt me when enabling analytics, but it did display a notice (hidden in several hundred lines of output during brew upgrade): ------------------- + 5a9e19f...7f13b37 master -> origin/master (forced update) * [new tag] 0.1 -> 0.1 HEAD is now at 7f13b37 Merge pull request #1562 from wood…

> Looking at the website one of homebrew's developers (or at least the website developers) is based over here in Europe. He might be a nice target if you want to raise a stink and litigate. Homebrew lead maintainer here. We're chronically understaffed and underfunded. We have analytics so we can make Homebrew better by figuring out how to prioritise security, maintenance and bug fixes on packages based on how much th…

Mike,

I'm just saying that you're putting yourself on risky ground, not that I want to do something personally.

In fact I'd even consider keeping GA enabled IF BEING NOTIFIED.

The current notification is the problem, as it is close to invisble. Hiding output in a long log message is a dark pattern, I think it did not happen out of spite (you just used your normal shell output mechanism to show that).

However: Such a chage of policy is more important than the list of files being removed by git. Even opt out is OK IF THE USER IS INFORMED.

Currently it's like arthur dent being informed about the highway being built ... yeah we did display the notice.

I know building an open source project is no fun and I can really relate to your desire to know more about installations and deinstallations. Personally I don't even object to using google GA, just to the way it feels being snuck beside the radar.

Re: Brew commands send data to Google Analytics

#130

Post by hasperdi »

opk wrote: post #57
tfeldmann wrote: post #2

To disable this, execute brew analytics off

Any idea what to block if I want to just completely block google analytics at the firewall level?

The way I accomplish this is by setting up an dnsmasq DNS forwarder service. Find domains list for ad blocking / privacy on the internet and add these entries in dnsmasq's config.

The entries look like this:

address=/doubleclick.net/0.0.0.0

address=/gravity.com/0.0.0.0

address=/outbrain.com/0.0.0.0

...

Then set up the router's DHCP to use this server.

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