Live data from Hacker News

NIST’s new password rules – what you need to know

nakedsecurity.sophos.com

31–40 of 237 posts

Re: NIST’s new password rules – what you need to know

#31
post #25
post #2

8 characters seems very short. I like asking people to pick 4 words and a number. Satisfies the length issues. But... I love emojis and other things being possibilities. Cool.

They shouldn't pick 4 words, it should be randomly chosen for them.

At which point, they hit reset password (either on that page, or on successive logins) until they get four words that stick trivially... because they're a normal sentence.

Re: NIST’s new password rules – what you need to know

#32
post #15
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just use the security questions as another password, like my favorite color is JyQ|l[Duc-I6KrU-0k and I went to elementary school at ?YfBW+Yurh@m$lml":.

Those are rough when a customer service rep asks you for one of those over the phone... :)

Many password managers have a setting to make a password pronounceable, which is perfect for this use case.

Re: NIST’s new password rules – what you need to know

#33
> and should accept all UNICODE characters, too, including emoji

Hell no. This WILL lead to disaster, especially if people store their passwords in managers that may or may not mess up Unicode. UTF-8, for example, allows to encode the character "ä" as \xc3\xa4 OR \x61\xcc\x88. They look visually identical, yet fail any string comparison.

Not to mention the support calls "I'm in $random_foreign_country and don't have $random_char on my keyboard, cannot login"... good luck trying to match the kitty emoticon on your Android phone to the random font on a website to whatever input system iPhone uses. Or when they're used a German Windows keyboard and suddenly have to use a German Mac - basic stuff like the tilde symbol ~, pipe symbol | or the (square) brackets {[]} are not marked out on the keyboard.

I believe that it makes sense to display a warning "Your password may be impossible to type in another country/using a non-$current_platform keyboard" when such characters are encountered.

Re: NIST’s new password rules – what you need to know

#34
post #26

If SMS isn't a recommended 2FA, do they recommend some other means of 2FA?

Many [1]. Some examples, my comments in parentheses: - Out-of-Band Authenticators (mobile app over secure channel) - Single Factor OTP Device (like an OATH push-button, enter 6-digit code TOTP device) - Single Factor Cryptographic Devices (insert into computer) (among others) [1] https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-3/sp800-63b.html#sec5

Also "Single Factor Cryptographic Software", which I think means client certificates.

Re: NIST’s new password rules – what you need to know

#35
post #11
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing better than rules based on bad data and security theater.

If your password is compromised, it will only work until the next reset. That's better than having one that works for years.

Unless you can only change on a pre-defined interval, the attacker can always change your password for you to avoid being locked out. I don't know many users who would complain their their password seemingly never expired.

Re: NIST’s new password rules – what you need to know

#36
post #21
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your password is compromised, it will only work until the next reset. That's better than having one that works for years.

That's true, but I'm having hard time thinking of a use case where a sustained, hidden compromise is 'worse' than a one-time compromise. I mean, I guess they could login to your bank every week and transfer out $50 instead of just transferring out all your money on day 1, but... ?

I have previously worked in the gambling industry. The worst nightmare of any gambling device manufacturer is a group of people that discover a bug and exploit it on small scale - no one will bat an eye and investigate if a machine pays out 50 bucks more or less.

However, in most cases people are dumb, greedy or the combination of both - e.g. in February 2014, a concerted mass hack occurred across Germany and over 10M € were reported as losses (http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-126511954.html), and most other bugs surface fairly quickly because people exploit them until the machines run dry and the owner/manufacturer inspects them.

So, in the case of gambling machines/casinos, a small-scale hidden compromise is far worse than a "big blow" - thankfully for the industry, greed usually prevails over common sense.

Re: NIST’s new password rules – what you need to know

#38
post #30
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what you get when the reps can see the answers. The only working solution is to have the reps "log in" to the users account by entering the security question answer. If the reps can see the answer, it's far too easy for the attacker to turn the verification process into a game of twenty questions.

I've had this before with my bank, when I've had to authorise a large card payment (for a car). I was asked various security questions about monthly recurring payments from my account (in the UK, so standing orders and direct debits), but I've so many I can't keep up, and I change savings accounts and health, car, home, pet insurer every year to get a good deal. The rep on the phone kept prompting me when I was unsur…

I had the opposite recently. Trying to log into my alma mater's website to get a copy of transcripts, but my account had long ago locked out. They asked me questions over the phone to reset it, but I couldn't answer any of them.

"What is your phone number on file?" Shoot, I don't know, it was an old number that I changed maybe 6 years ago...

"What is your address on file?" I've moved maybe five times since then? I tried "was it in another state?" to narrow it down, but the answer was "I can't say that".

"Okay, we can verify you by classes you took..." Great, now we're getting somewhere! I took Intro to Ethics. "We need to know what term." Okay, this is tricky, it was like 10 years ago... Fall of 2006? "We need to know professor's name." Um. I think I have the book here, I know he wrote it... Professor McLaughlin? "I also need to know the day of the week the class was held and what time the class was."

Are you effing kidding me? I wish I was joking. I ended up just calling my old advisor and he "verified" me with an email to the helpdesk.

Re: NIST’s new password rules – what you need to know

#39
post #9
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PCI compliance requires quarterly rotation of passwords and keys.

Nothing better than rules based on bad data and security theater.

That is the entirety of PCI

PCI is nothing more than Security Theater so Mastercard and visa can claim it is all the merchants fault for data breaches and shield them from any liability

Post reply on HN