Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Headphones can be hijacked to surreptitiously record audio

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 158 posts

Re: Headphones can be hijacked to surreptitiously record audio

#41

Post by dom0 »

mikeash wrote: post #16
chias wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author of the article intended to write "output-only". But even this is not quite right: it's by definition not an input-only jack, but rather a jack capable of both input and output (which the user may think is output-only), but that RealTek has quietly switched to input mode as a result of their malware. Really this title is alarmist. Only very specific hardware, and you'd have to not notice the sound stopped.

It says this hardware is used in most computers, so it doesn't sound very specific. Maybe they're overstating it though?

Most fully integrated audio codecs support this, including the common Realtek/RTL variety.

Dedicated audio interfaces and more expensive cards are normally unable to do this, hardware wise.

Re: Headphones can be hijacked to surreptitiously record audio

#43

Post by arca_vorago »

jastanton wrote: post #13

Serious question: I understand the argument against the classic "why should I care if someone records my conversations? I don't do anything illegal.", being that once the government starts recording everything you say the freedom of being able to say anything negative against them goes away knowing they could be listening. That said, why should I, a boring law abiding citizen, go around disabling my hardware and cove…

One thing to keep in mind is that your lack of security can impact others, often without them being aware. So for example, you may be a boring law abiding citizen, but your brother is an anon. Well, that conversation where he told you about his dissident views got recorded, and they got a snapshot of him off from your camera, and in 2024 when dictator X turns the totalitarian surveillance key, your brother gets sent to re-education camp or worse.

There's many more angles, but that is one I don't think people think of very often. Another quick example is this, I have had to be very clear to and friends and family who know me on facebook (even though most of my data is poisoned) that they should never tag me in a photo, and preferably should never post a photo of me in the first place.

Re: Headphones can be hijacked to surreptitiously record audio

#44

Post by nkrisc »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #21
nkrisc wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just the government you need to worry about, it's independent malicious actors as well. Video or audio recordings from your devices could be used to blackmail you unless you're very, very careful what you do or say at all times such devices are around. With regards to the government, while you may not be doing anything illegal now, it will be illegal when they outlaw it.

In the US, ex post facto laws cannot be made.

Oh I understand that, I'm thinking a little more dystopian. Though in some other countries that might be the reality today.

Re: Headphones can be hijacked to surreptitiously record audio

#46

Post by JadeNB »

chias wrote: post #14
mark-r wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don't play sounds all day. But this does point to a viable defense, if the headphones are always playing something they can't be used to record.

That's a good point. You would also need to leave your headphones plugged in while not playing sounds (I don't, but others might I suppose). Headphones also make a really crappy mic -- try it out by plugging them into a microphone jack (essentially what this malware emulates) and recording yourself: you'll need to hold them inches from your mouth to be intelligible. This is an interesting idea and something that the…

> Headphones also make a really crappy mic -- try it out by plugging them into a microphone jack (essentially what this malware emulates) and recording yourself: you'll need to hold them inches from your mouth to be intelligible.

The article itself claims two orders of magnitude better reach:

> In their tests, the researchers tried the audio hack with a pair of Sennheiser headphones. They found that they could record from as far as 20 feet away—and even compress the resulting recording and send it over the internet, as a hacker would—and still distinguish the words spoken by a male voice.

Re: Headphones can be hijacked to surreptitiously record audio

#47

Post by darpa_escapee »

jastanton wrote: post #13

Serious question: I understand the argument against the classic "why should I care if someone records my conversations? I don't do anything illegal.", being that once the government starts recording everything you say the freedom of being able to say anything negative against them goes away knowing they could be listening. That said, why should I, a boring law abiding citizen, go around disabling my hardware and cove…

"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him."

People have a history of abusing the power they have over people. The government isn't inherently untrustworthy because it is the government, it is people that are inherently untrustworthy when handed power without oversight and checks on that power. Having total information on an individual is power over that individual.

I don't want my friends or neighbors knowing everything I say and do. I don't want my insurance company taking things I say or do out of context as an excuse to raise my rates or drop me. I don't want the local White Nationalist group to know my background or political opinions. I don't want Google, who has the ability to disable my decade old e-mail account and make my digital life difficult, to know I'm working with a competitor.

Re: Headphones can be hijacked to surreptitiously record audio

#49

Post by VLM »

nkrisc wrote: post #15
jastanton wrote: post #13

Serious question: I understand the argument against the classic "why should I care if someone records my conversations? I don't do anything illegal.", being that once the government starts recording everything you say the freedom of being able to say anything negative against them goes away knowing they could be listening. That said, why should I, a boring law abiding citizen, go around disabling my hardware and cove…

It's not just the government you need to worry about, it's independent malicious actors as well. Video or audio recordings from your devices could be used to blackmail you unless you're very, very careful what you do or say at all times such devices are around. With regards to the government, while you may not be doing anything illegal now, it will be illegal when they outlaw it.

Two minor additions.

Its not just recordings, but raw material to be edited and spliced together.

Its not just illegal stuff you need to worry about but raises concern, adds you to an investigation, adds you to a secret list (no fly list).

Re: Headphones can be hijacked to surreptitiously record audio

#50

Post by kuschku »

JadeNB wrote: post #46
chias wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point. You would also need to leave your headphones plugged in while not playing sounds (I don't, but others might I suppose). Headphones also make a really crappy mic -- try it out by plugging them into a microphone jack (essentially what this malware emulates) and recording yourself: you'll need to hold them inches from your mouth to be intelligible. This is an interesting idea and something that the…

> Headphones also make a really crappy mic -- try it out by plugging them into a microphone jack (essentially what this malware emulates) and recording yourself: you'll need to hold them inches from your mouth to be intelligible. The article itself claims two orders of magnitude better reach: > In their tests, the researchers tried the audio hack with a pair of Sennheiser headphones. They found that they could record…

> with a pair of Sennheiser headphones.

And that's where this falls apart.

While some people buy quality headphones, many will be using cheap, or rebranded low-quality headphones, like beats, or even no-name headphones.

Post reply on HN