81–90 of 109 posts
After all these promising presentations and blog entries about what thoughts went into Eve, I'm a bit dissapointed by the result. Or I'm ignorant and don't get it (yet?). Sure, it utilizes literate programming and it abstracts a lot away but it does not seem as revolutionary as the communication around it suggested. Maybe the next articles in this series will enlighten me.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
how much percent of front-end devs do 'only' native UIs? I mean even most of the mobile people were web devs once...
> I mean even most of the mobile people were web devs once... What makes you think that? Most native UI developers I know have never been web devs.
I'm glad there are people rethinking how we develop programs. But as a web developer, the examples in Eve looks more complex then a naive implementation using vanilla CSS, HTML and JavaScript would look like, for example, how do you make something 10 pixels wider in Eve ?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
how much percent of front-end devs do 'only' native UIs? I mean even most of the mobile people were web devs once...
Everyone that does applications that require OS APIs, interaction with external devices, factories, embedded, air gaped desktops, care about the UI/UX of the user. Native UI isn't a synonym for mobiles.
My point wasn't that it is a synonym for mobile. I just think there are much more web devs than regular ones AND that most of the mobile devs do (or did) web-dev (before).
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everyone that does applications that require OS APIs, interaction with external devices, factories, embedded, air gaped desktops, care about the UI/UX of the user. Native UI isn't a synonym for mobiles.
I know that. My point wasn't that it is a synonym for mobile. I just think there are much more web devs than regular ones AND that most of the mobile devs do (or did) web-dev (before).
Title : "your entire programming stack". I feel sad when I find that web programmers think there are only web stacks and "programming" refers only to web programming. It is not entirely the case here, but the description of "a core system" as : - Database layer - Remote API layer - Application layer made me tick.
> Eve is the culmination of years of research and development by the visionary team who previously founded Light Table. ...and then abandoned it after getting me excited about a possible Emacs replacement...
Still being developed, though: https://github.com/LightTable/LightTable
> Excluding merges, 2 authors have pushed 2 commits to master and 2 commits to all branches. On master, 4 files have changed and there have been 64 additions and 15 deletions.
This is not the kind of activity I'd expect in the project under active development. Compare to Emacs[1]:
> Excluding merges, 39 authors have pushed 227 commits to master and 260 commits to all branches. On master, 352 files have changed and there have been 6,143 additions and 3,732 deletions.
...and that's Emacs main repo, excluding all the development happening in plugins.
But well, that's actually not that important; what matters is that LightTable badly needs a serious refactoring, because reportedly there is just one person who actually understands the codebase (and it's Chris). Such refactoring is not going to happen, though, because people who actually could do it abandoned the project.
Perhaps it's not even a refactoring that's needed, but a rewrite. Even if using the same language - ClojureScript - the project would be supposedly written in a totally different way due to the changes in the ecosystem. Switching languages would require an immense amount of careful weighing of pros and cons, but it may be worth considering.
Still, this is not going to happen, the code and effort that went into LT are essentially wasted now, possibly with the exception of the learning experience for the authors.
I'm writing this much about it because I really hoped LT to be a modern incarnation of Emacs, as the latter was starting to show its age. Instead, however, LT is dead. On the other hand Emacs got embeddable xwidgets in the last release - which means that (in time, it's not very usable as-is) we will get the in-buffer, full web browser.
I was keeping a close eye on Eve until it changed direction from programming for everyone to yet another lisp . Is there any writeup/discussion on why this happened? I do like learning about mind-expanding languages, and something resonated with me when the CardWiki interface was revealed. I get that this language is very 'human readable' but at the end of the day if I want to read or write it I will actually have to…
Its less the direction changing than the plan for how to get there. The major pieces to the roadmap is now: 1. Eve: Programming designed for humans (current) 2. Eve: Computation for all 3. Eve: The world scale computer http://www.chris-granger.com/2016/07/21/two-years-of-eve/ has some information on why. Selected quotes: "We learned with Light Table that we can't just slap a UI onto Javascript and expect it to work;…
> we need developers to like it before end users will
While I can see how there is some separation of concerns as mentioned in that post, I think the above quote doesn't have to be true in order for Eve to succeed. It has the potential to contradict the whole programming designed for humans line. Developers can be quite happy with some pretty funky syntax/abstractions which won't seem remotely obvious/intuitive to non-programmers. If developers' considerations are put before non-programmers, Eve might end up a language for developers, as opposed to the intended audience. Personally I think that means that you can't drop the UI even for now. It has to be the only interface. Otherwise you won't get the interest from non-programmers. What developers might like and grok, non-developers might not.
Just one data point from somebody interested in this sort of thing.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Same here when they refer to front-end as a synonym for Web UIs, as if there wasn't quite a few of us doing 100% native UIs.
how much percent of front-end devs do 'only' native UIs? I mean even most of the mobile people were web devs once...