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Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

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Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#121

Post by robert_tweed »

Singletoned wrote: post #105
robert_tweed wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to be a lot of hate for this policy, but the goal is simply universal interoperability, which is laudible. Otherwise we might as well go back to the days of IE6, since apparently there is absolutely no problem with Embrace-Extend-Extinguish, as long as we can have emojis on our Macbooks. Edit: I should add that, since it doesn't appear to be a true interop issue, it may not be a sound decision here. I'm defendi…

> the goal is simply universal interoperability No, the goal is that "GNU Emacs should never offer people a practical reason to use some other system instead of GNU". Universal interoperability is just a side effect.

You've got it backwards. Stallman may be disagreeable at times, but he's no fool. It's written this way to address the root cause of interop issues, which are themselves a secondary effect.

Of course he wants people to choose GNU, but most importantly, he wants to preserve people's freedom to choose GNU, which means it must not become a second-class citizen to proprietory additions from Apple, Microsoft, or anyone else. If it's portable to GNU, the issue goes away. He says so explicitly.

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#122

Post by grive »

raverbashing wrote: post #92
gkya wrote: post #81

1) It's perfectly okay (and good) that GNU maintainers do not want to have features that are needlessly exclusive to a given platform. 2) It's perfectly okay (and good) that they want their software to behave consistently across platforms, as otherwise those are not really cross-platform. 3) Coloured typeface are illogical, just use pictures, which is what emoji are. It's fairly easy to insert images into a buffer in…

> It's fairly easy to insert images into a buffer in Emacs. Sure and how it is represented in the underlying file? Is this platform independent? Emoji are just a part of Unicode. As far as I care, I wouldn't mind if Emacs would just render it as [GRINNING FACE U+1f600]

We're not talking about Emojis, but coloured typeface. Emojis are part of Unicode, coloured typeface are not.

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#123

Post by gutnor »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #29
vilhelm_s wrote: post #7

And several other Mac features were stopped before they made it into the official release. This is Richard Stallman's policy: "GNU Emacs should never offer people a practical reason to use some other system instead of GNU. Therefore, when someone implements a useful new feature but only for a non-GNU system, we do not accept it that form." https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-12/msg01... https://lists.…

If the goal is to encourage people to use GNU software and potentially even migrate to a full GNU system, I find this policy counterintuitive. It comes off as needless and antagonistic and it pushes me further away from GNU and towards free software that's not so tangled up in rigid philosophies, or worse, proprietary software.

> It comes off as needless and antagonistic

That's because that comes directly from the commercial companies rulebook. Apple (for example) will not make an application that runs better on Android or Windows than on one of its OS.

It would not be beside any of the big brand to remove something that was working before just because that remove a tiny bit of interest in their own platform. That makes cruel business sense ... and they are also hated for it when it happens.

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#124

Post by Annatar »

crististm wrote: post #115
Annatar wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this. It validates and reaffirms my hate of GNU. GNU is not UNIX, and no amount of "freedom" peddling changes the fact that it purposely violates UNIX principles. The only thing that could change that is their code (for example ditching info in favor of man pages, removing the z option in GNU tar, or dropping --long-options), and that's one thing they'll never change. I'm so glad I don't have to put up…

Remove z option in tar? Where did that come from?

From the fact that tar is a tape archiver, and according to the UNIX philosophy of "do one thing and do it well" it should empathically not dub as a (de)compressor. GNU implements tools inside of other tools. Emacs is a perfect example if that.

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#125

Post by crististm »

_ph_ wrote: post #50

It is a strange interpretation of freedom, if you are free to run the software how you want, except if RMS disapproves your OS. I think this way of "defending free software" is rather counterproductive. I say this as a strong supporter of free and open source software and both a Mac and Linux user. I want Linux or any other free operation system to be strong in the market. But this should be reached on features and c…

Yet RMS disapproval of MAC OS does not make Free software less free. The fundamental rights of free software are still preserved:

"the users have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software"

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#126

Post by qwertyuiop924 »

Get off your high horse, Richard: In fighting software that restricts its users and doesn't respect their freedoms, you've become the thing you despise.

Oh, and the rest of the Emacs team: Don't think you're getting away with this, either: it's despicable.

I may well actually work on exporting the GCC AST in protest.

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#128

Post by cyphar »

qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #126

Get off your high horse, Richard: In fighting software that restricts its users and doesn't respect their freedoms, you've become the thing you despise. Oh, and the rest of the Emacs team: Don't think you're getting away with this, either: it's despicable. I may well actually work on exporting the GCC AST in protest.

> In fighting software that restricts its users and doesn't respect their freedoms, you've become the thing you despise.

GNU Emacs is still under the GPL. Feel free to modify it to re-add the feature that was removed. The only reason you have the freedom to do that is because of Richard Stallman's "high horse".

> Oh, and the rest of the Emacs team:

Reminder that GNU Emacs is part of GNU/Linux, and thus features are developed against GNU/Linux first and other operating systems later. In addition, it is part of the requirements of GNU packages that they not encourage users to use proprietary operating systems. This includes having features on proprietary operating systems that do not exist on free operating systems.

Surely you see why that's important, right?

> I may well actually work on exporting the GCC AST in protest.

Have fun using the freedoms that the GPL grants you while protesting against the movement that caused free software to exist in the first place. Hypocrisy is so much fun.

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#129

Post by qwertyuiop924 »

Annatar wrote: post #124
crististm wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remove z option in tar? Where did that come from?

From the fact that tar is a tape archiver, and according to the UNIX philosophy of "do one thing and do it well" it should empathically not dub as a (de)compressor. GNU implements tools inside of other tools. Emacs is a perfect example if that.

GNU didn't originate from a unix mindset. You should know this.

That doesn't mean their software is bad.

Also, Emacs is incredibly useful, and one of the best general-purpose text editors out there.

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#130

Post by bArray »

Forget GNU making a point, maintenance wise having several versions of your program with several different features could easily become hell. As these coloured smilies grow additional features, get bugs, etc - Emacs for OSX begins to fork. You then have divided developer time, with typically one fork eventually dying due to lack of funds.

Apple users: Take the temporary pain to protect your future.

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