> He told us to send emails directly to real people with each application. It could be anybody. As long as someone read it. > For most small companies or C-level executives, the email format is usually firstName@dreamCompany.com. For larger companies, it may be firstName.lastName@dreamCompany.com. This advice is horribly annoying, and I really wish people would stop recommending this awful email guesswork garbage. I'…
What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp
271–280 of 398 posts
Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp
#272Are people in America seriously getting offers of $120k with no degree, no experience, and not even a side-project? That is mind-blowing. In London, probably the biggest/richest market outside of USA, that sort of salary is beyond what most experienced developers get, even some very good ones. I must be missing something here (some sort of bubble?) because I can't see how businesses can be profitable paying those sor…
Experience and track record are the most important things in securing a position. Luckily in tech, you can build your own experience by doing things and not waiting for things to be handed to you. The sad thing is devs who are out of school for 1-2 years think they have arrived at 6 figures, when they have many years of problem solving and result delivering to give to fully return the value of what they're being paid…
Very true. As a new pilot, you have to pay/fight for flight time to build experience before moving up. As doctor/surgeon, you have to be in a certain situation with close supervision to practice your craft and gain experience, which is expensive.
In almost all tech, this is not a requirement, which is what I love about tech.
Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp
#273>> I applied to 291 companies, did 32 phone screens, 16 technical screens, 13 coding challenges, 11 on-sites, and received 8 offers. How much time would that take? Figure 15 minutes per company - 4,365 minutes, or 72 hours. And that's time just spent finding the company, changing around a cover letter, and then emailing it and responding etc. 32 phone screens? Let's say 30 minutes each, that's 960 minutes, or 16 hour…
Finding the company: approximate amount of time spent here is 5 seconds. You have a spreadsheet, just go to the next one on the list.
Changing the cover letter: template it with variables. Should end up being a single bash command, most of the time is locating and properly formatting company name, person of contact, and filling out a couple sentences about why you're interested. 90 seconds when you're in the flow of things, tops.
Replying to emails and the like properly counts as part of the organization for the phone and technical screens.
There's time costs for when the application process includes forms that take a bunch of time to fill out. Not because you finish ~20 minute applications, though, but a certain percentage of the ones you look at you wind up having to abort due to those barriers, so you amortize the cost in there.
If you can handle really boring repetitive work, and you're not doing much else that day, you can wind up sending out a hundred applications in a day without too much fuss. For scheduling phone screens, set up a Google Calendar and/or a youcanbook.me and let the other party pick a time that works for them. Prep for phone and technical screening has little marginal cost - mostly it'll be spending a few minutes grabbing notes on business models and tech stacks so you can look good, along with jotting down notes afterwards about follow-up and ideas to improve on.
On-site basically counts as a full day.
>Also, I would have targeted applications to a lot less than 291 companies. I guess if I was trying to get my first job I'd be a lot less picky, but the 'ideal' company to work at can be few and far between.
It's a numbers game. You want to look at as many as possible, so you can pick after you have information about them. Basically, it's probably easier to filter out companies based off of actually talking to people there, rather than going down the rabbit hole of figuring out your desiderata and researching how companies fit it.
tl;dr - the actual application process looks like it could've been done over 5 weeks, given prep work was complete. One week sending out a giant pile of applications, one week doing phone screens, technical screens, coding challenges, then just over two weeks of doing on-site interviews.
Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
How did you get one recruiter to submit you to 17 different positions? Any time I deal with a recruiter they seem to stop (or at least really slow down) trying to find you something until they hear a firm 'no' from whoever they submitted you to. I think the most phone screens a single recruiter ever got me is two in a single week....maaaaybe three. And only one in-person interview at a time. It took a lot longer than…
I briefly worked as an accounting recruiter[1]. It's extremely plausible one person could be submitted to 17 different positions in a week, while another person gets one every other week. Getting interviews is as much politics as it is being qualified. At the place I worked, recruiters owned their job listings and their applicants. You get paid more if you fill your jobs with your own applicants, for what I think are…
When you're juggling 17 job opportunities knowing that you have a good shot at a least 10 offers, you really don't have to negotiate. Between the salary offers and the recruiters willingness to throw in a signing bonus, you can let the system work for you.
No matter how good you are negotiating, if the company has a budget of $90,000 and you are looking for $130,000, you can't square that circle and you won't know a lot of the time until after you've wasted time going through the process.
Also over the past 9 years I've had four jobs. I made a mistake and contacted a recruiter from the same company where I was already working with another recruiter and she told me that I was already working with one of her coworkers. Another recruiter mentioned their "morning meetings" where they all get together to share candidates and jobs. It's in the recruiters best interest to find a candidate a job even if they aren't the account manager for a specific company, knowing that a good developer can find a job in less than two weeks.
That being said, I've always been good at writing tech resumes and I am a good interviewer.
Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp
#275> He told us to send emails directly to real people with each application. It could be anybody. As long as someone read it. > For most small companies or C-level executives, the email format is usually firstName@dreamCompany.com. For larger companies, it may be firstName.lastName@dreamCompany.com. This advice is horribly annoying, and I really wish people would stop recommending this awful email guesswork garbage. I'…
Horribly annoying to whom exactly? You? A person with a tech job who couldn't figure out how to create an email filter for the words "job" and "resume". OP increased his response rate almost 4x. Why wouldn't he recommend this practice?
There's no fool-proof filter for this. I can't safely filter out all email containing certain keywords, even from external email domains. I would get legitimate email containing those words from external domains -- legit candidates, people I met at conferences, etc.
I don't argue that it's good to contact a real person when trying to get a job. But at least take the effort to ensure you're actually emailing the person you intend, not some other person who happens to have the same first name!
Given that the OP applied to nearly three hundred companies, I can absolutely guarantee he just sent these out blindly based on guessing the first name. And seeing as he only got phone screens out of 11% of these companies, one would assume most recipients of these emails view them the same way I do: garbage.
Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
My github account was brought up in a recent technical interview. The hiring manager felt that my account lacked professionalism because I had several >= 1 year old, unfinished repositories.
That is... bizarre. He should look at the abandoned internal repos of the average software company's experiments and realign his expectations with reality.
Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp
#277At least only 2.8 percent of the companies he contacted were interested in hiring someone whose only genuine reason to be interested in software development is the salary. Now I remember why I've gravitated towards sysadmin rather than dev, and avoid the big tech companies and their cult of overpaid mediocrity.
Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd say that is true for most of Europe. The status system is a big burden, and it makes personal interactions less pleasant.
Hard to go to UK and not hear parents bragging about what school their children go to...
Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
The average age in my class was 28. People weren't ex-baristas. They were people from various backgrounds, often technical-related. I was a Math and Econ double major with a minor in applied statistics, then spent 6 years in finance doing equities trading. I was drastically more qualified than the average 22 year old with a CS degree.
Many 22 year olds with a CS degree have been coding since they were 12.
Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
Horribly annoying to whom exactly? You? A person with a tech job who couldn't figure out how to create an email filter for the words "job" and "resume". OP increased his response rate almost 4x. Why wouldn't he recommend this practice?
Yes, annoying to me. It's unsolicited, unwanted email from a stranger, interrupting my concentration several times a day, and often not even intended to be sent to me. This is the very definition of spam -- why would you consider this an acceptable practice? There's no fool-proof filter for this. I can't safely filter out all email containing certain keywords, even from external email domains. I would get legitimate…