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What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

medium.freecodecamp.com

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Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#171

Post by seangrogg »

ericmcer wrote: post #28

Is it still a huge deal to have an encyclopedic knowledge of data structures and algorithms? This guy was applying for jobs doing React/Node, which is what I do, and two years after school I cant remember all the details of the sorting algorithms. Would it be so bad to tell the interviewer that if I do anything other than call browser APIs to sort data I am failing at my job and wasting time?

It's still a pretty big deal to know how Big O for time complexity (space complexity less so) and how to write algorithms that optimize for such. That being said, I've never had to write anything much more complex than a Binary Search algorithm for an interview as far as DS&A goes.

If I were being interviewed I would have no problem taking advantage of any standard APIs I would expect to have available to me, which includes browser APIs if it were a front-end role. Why waste valuable interview time writing a sorting algorithm instead of just using .sort()?

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#172

Post by evonsdesigns »

ryanmccullagh wrote: post #129

I wonder how much Live Coding he had to do. I've been interviewing like crazy lately, and I've learned I hate live coding, and "thinking out loud". You're in a room with your laptop hooked up to the monitor, and 2 people are watching you code. Any small typing mistake or mouse movements can be a negative on your review. Live coding should die.

I disagree. Companies need to know these people can walk the walk. Sure, I don't expect you to know all the spec details. Googling the spec or asking questions is fine. I had one interviewee that went through a similar boot camp. The discussion portion of the interview went exceptionally well; he knew all the topics and had opinions on using certain technologies over others. It seemed like a good fit, until we got him in front of code. He struggled to do a simple object assignment in JavaScript.

To your point, any small typing mistake or mouse movements shouldn't be judged. Interviewers know you will be nervous during the interview. If they are discrediting candidates over that, they shouldn't be interviewing.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#173

Post by seangrogg »

nogbit wrote: post #29

Wow, instead, get 100% response rate from only the 5 jobs one should really apply for because they have a personal story to tell that is a great match for the work being asked. I've done that twice. Throwing your name against the wall results in a whole lot of wasted time. You got some offers, great, but next time be picky!

You can typically afford to be picky (or have jobs apply to you) once you have a notch in your belt.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#174

Post by merpnderp »

dood wrote: post #6

Are people in America seriously getting offers of $120k with no degree, no experience, and not even a side-project? That is mind-blowing. In London, probably the biggest/richest market outside of USA, that sort of salary is beyond what most experienced developers get, even some very good ones. I must be missing something here (some sort of bubble?) because I can't see how businesses can be profitable paying those sor…

In a tiny town in the middle of nowhere middle america, where the cost of living is 90% the national average, we can't keep college grads starting at $75k with an assured 10% bonus. This is a town where all marble 4,000 square foot McMansions start at $240k. bestplaces.net puts this as a comparable salary to around $280K in San Fran.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#175

Post by seangrogg »

ubersoldat2k7 wrote: post #4

How do you even manage this amount of information? A notebook can help but once you hit the 20 applications mark, it's impossible to know to which companies you applied for.

Asana.

No seriously, that's what they were using at HR when I graduated.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#176

Post by seangrogg »

patricklynch wrote: post #126
_petronius wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sense is that it's just a good way to annoy people whose job isn't hiring. At best, you're risking annoying someone who is busy (and your email being deleted with no reply), at worst, you're actively penalizing yourself if you are demonstrating that you aren't willing to go through the standard hiring process that the company uses. (For other terrible ways that job applicants try to "stand out", Ask A Manager is a…

The fact that his response rate when from If anything, assuming most companies have an 'employee referral' program, emailing a random non-recruiter may have the additional advantage that, for no cost to you, someone at that company becomes incentivized for several thousand dollars to lobby for you.

This is actually a very good point. Having an incentivized advocate really skews things in your favor and many companies have such programs in place to bring in new hires...

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#177

Post by jaawn »

threatofrain wrote: post #152
nemo44x wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of it is folks in the UK, and even London in particular, get paid quite a bit less than Americans. My wife is from the UK and has worked in London and NYC and she makes quite a bit more money in NYC. She has told me there's no way she'd make her salary in London and it would probably be quite a bit less. She doesn't work in software either; she works in finance. I think part of it is it simply costs a whole lot…

If you're saying that the UK transfers some of the wealth that might've gone to employees and instead diverted it to social programs, that means we need a better analysis to account for the value transfer that's going on. It's possible to see a smaller paycheck and in fact receive a larger value transfer.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Put into words that are easier on my brain: If the things taxes are being spent on (social programs, shared services, and shared spaces like parks) are significantly better, one might still have a "better living" with a lower salary.

One of the main aspects of this that is very relevant to Americans is how easy or difficult it is to be fired and what programs are available for those who lose their job. Even if you are never fired, simply the threat of it can cause anxiety and stress that simply wouldn't exist in places where it is harder to be fired and which have better programs for people who are fired.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#178

Post by dba7dba »

dood wrote: post #6

Are people in America seriously getting offers of $120k with no degree, no experience, and not even a side-project? That is mind-blowing. In London, probably the biggest/richest market outside of USA, that sort of salary is beyond what most experienced developers get, even some very good ones. I must be missing something here (some sort of bubble?) because I can't see how businesses can be profitable paying those sor…

He has a degree from University of California, Berkeley (aka UC Berkeley or Cal) and it's a top notch university in US. It's often ranked #1 public university in USA and in top 5 or 10 even when other expensive private universities are included in the ranking, like Stanford, Harvard, MIT.

Obviously it all depends on the major and other factors, but I'd say simply getting into and graduating from UC Berkeley does mean something.

Of course lots of smart, hard working students simply go to local community colleges to save $ etc. But when a recruiter sees UC Berkeley on resume and they want someone with a degree, it give a good impression.

And let's not forget on HN survey, about half of the working programmers are self-taught.

And who knows, maybe he had side project(s) or examples of code to show.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#179

Post by ryanmccullagh »

evonsdesigns wrote: post #172
ryanmccullagh wrote: post #129

I wonder how much Live Coding he had to do. I've been interviewing like crazy lately, and I've learned I hate live coding, and "thinking out loud". You're in a room with your laptop hooked up to the monitor, and 2 people are watching you code. Any small typing mistake or mouse movements can be a negative on your review. Live coding should die.

I disagree. Companies need to know these people can walk the walk. Sure, I don't expect you to know all the spec details. Googling the spec or asking questions is fine. I had one interviewee that went through a similar boot camp. The discussion portion of the interview went exceptionally well; he knew all the topics and had opinions on using certain technologies over others. It seemed like a good fit, until we got hi…

Define the object assignment? Was it really just an assignment statement?

I was rejected with almost no feedback from a company this month. I feel I solved their live coding thing correctly using a recursive approach. However, I was told they didn't like my coding style, so they didn't move me forward. They also said I moved the mouse too much.

Re: What I learned from spending 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp

#180

Post by Jemmeh »

iamatworknow wrote: post #72
prh8 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

also: > companies automatically categorize us into junior developer roles in other words, correctly categorized

This was the part I didn't understand at all. You go through a CS program for 4 years or more and end up as a junior developer and that's fine, but if you go through a 12 week coding bootcamp you're somehow more qualified and shouldn't be "benchmarked against junior developers"? I do realize I'm making an assumption that there was no prior CS experience before the bootcamp, but isn't that the crowd they're targeting?

I wouldn't say that makes them "better", but it's possible to shorten the time needed to learn to program by quite a lot. Though I mean more like 6mo-12 mo for most people if they do it 60+ hours/week with the right mentor to point them in the right direction.

Our current education system isn't always the most efficient way to learn. Skip the unrelated to programming classes, the extra curricular things, make people basically sleep, eat, and code for a few months and it's doable.

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