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Scientist discovers particular seaweed nearly eliminates cow methane emissions

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Re: Scientist discovers particular seaweed nearly eliminates cow methane emissions

#111
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What were the conclusions of your research?

Not the OP, but the typical conclusion would be "effective altruism indicates I should stay in tech and give money to helping fisherman transition to seaweed farming." It's very hard to pass this analysis, since "high tech" is almost universally more valuable to humanity, per unit, that something low tech like farming. If you're already in tech and you want to "help the world", giving money is almost always the best…

>something low tech like farming //

Large scale farming is not low-tech. Presumably someone moving in to farming from a tech discipline would seek to optimise their tech use as a competitive advantage over incumbents.

Re: Scientist discovers particular seaweed nearly eliminates cow methane emissions

#112
post #11

How relevant are cow farts in global warming? is there a percent figure? as in cows contribute x% of gas emissions

16.5% of methane emissions, give or take. If you could further apply this to all livestock, it's around 30%.

I thought it was mainly burps (eructation), read that somewhere recently, eg http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/08/150803-cows-burp-....

Re: Scientist discovers particular seaweed nearly eliminates cow methane emissions

#113
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst move the environmental movement did is let the environmentally sensitive product be associated with consumption by a rich liberal urban elite. Until someone can fix this and disassociate ecological efficiency from the limousine liberal, these programs are unfortunately going to only be marginal. Minimizing environmental externalities can't be seen as optional. Lots of reasonable things increase cost - such…

Who cares about environmental friendliness? Liberals. Who has the money to pay extra for environmentally friendly products? Well-to-do liberals. I don't really understand how you think things could have gone differently.

Many environmental things have left the left/right discourse such as not being exposed to nuclear radiation or reducing smog to lead to breathable air.

Conservatives are unlikely to be OK with someone knowingly and intentionally exposing people to fatal levels of radiation in the way they are OK with adverse ecological systems.

It needs to leave the intellectual space of optional or preferential discourse and enter the one of rights and crimes.

Re: Scientist discovers particular seaweed nearly eliminates cow methane emissions

#114
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that meat has been part of the human diet before we were even human, and evolution has adapted us to be omnivores. The human body can't produce a number of amino acids any more, a number of which are most easily sourced from the bodies of animals that can produce them (most of which are herbivores). For example Lysine and Methionine are easier to acquire from meat than vegetables; especially if you aren't burn…

It is easier for moat people to live with fossil fuel so it is preferable right? I'm going to pass on the tired discussion of meat is what we're meant to eat because we've been going it forever. Bottom line is you CAN live without meat, it is perfectly healthy so it comes down to a choice. Now my original point was that having this half measures that require constant policing from both the consumer and industries is…

My point is this, short of banning eating meat people will continue to do so; even if you made vegetables 1/100 of the cost of meat and fixed the calories / Lysine / Methionine issue (which would probably mean post processing the vegetables which increases costs). Banning means legislation, that means politics.

So seguing into climate change issues, this took politics too. It started with grassroots taking hold in the 60's counter culture, then the start of political pressure in the 70's. The first big political move was Reagan coming on board during the 80's; and also some lucky technology hook ups like solar powered calculators (never underestimate the power of logistical growth from a low end but widely used product).

The 90's brought us government sponsored research and industry backed development and product roll outs; this led to massive improvements in cost mainly though scale. The last 15 years have led to product refinements, financing options, and a greater society wide understanding of just how bad climate change could be.

And now we are at a situation of solar becoming cheaper than coal for producing electricity. 50 years!

So if you want to achieve the same with meat vs vegetables there is an enormous amount to achieve, above all you'll need to convince people at least as well as climate change issues, get government backing, make it as enjoyable as eating meat, and drive down the cost of Lysine and Methionine extraction.

In fact Canola (low erucic acid rapeseed) meal (what's left over after oil extraction) is currently used as livestock feed, this could be used for human consumption but would require further post-processing and possibly protein profile adjustment.

Re: Scientist discovers particular seaweed nearly eliminates cow methane emissions

#115
post #82
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There probably isn't an incentive to reduce methane emissions for farmers right now though I think we will be able to detect methane emissions on a large scale from space sometime soon, e.g. [1]. At that point, farmers can't escape the law in any way, and they will have an incentive to reduce emissions. [1] http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2016/0615/NASA-detects-meth...

Assuming there is a law. I think we can already detect methane well enough to know that cows make a lot of it. You don't want to make the law something they must "escape" from, but rather something they can profit from by not polluting. Like tax credits.

I disagree. I think we need to increasingly shift to pollution taxes because 1) physical pollution is hard to hide and 2) minimising pollution both improves the environment and maximises industrial efficiency.

Re: Scientist discovers particular seaweed nearly eliminates cow methane emissions

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first I was confused... thanks for pointing out that this study is totally impractical. Cattle, like most ruminants, rely on the fermentation of cellulose for most of their energy needs. Any feed additive that shuts down this process will result in malnourished cattle, and is unlikely to see broad adoption in the industry. Luckily for the PEI farmer, the seaweed he used didn't have this effect.

That's covered in the paper. The in vitro test was on bacterial samples that do that very fermentation and measured the output of nutrients (fatty acids) that can be absorbed by the animals. I.e. shutting down the methanogenesis does not shut down all fermentation, it just takes other pathways. It is not an essential component.

Wow I guess this is why I'm not a biochemist; I wouldn't have thought that was possible. This might be something to look for at the feed store in another decade or so...

Re: Scientist discovers particular seaweed nearly eliminates cow methane emissions

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but the typical conclusion would be "effective altruism indicates I should stay in tech and give money to helping fisherman transition to seaweed farming." It's very hard to pass this analysis, since "high tech" is almost universally more valuable to humanity, per unit, that something low tech like farming. If you're already in tech and you want to "help the world", giving money is almost always the best…

OP here. Your assuming I'd stay in tech to arbitrage the wage gap to give altruistically. You discount that maybe working in tech isn't what makes me happy (disclaimer: I like my current gig because of the people I get to work with, but nothing is forever), farming seaweed from my 41 foot catamaran (now depreciable as a business expense if commercially farming seaweed) might make me happier after working in tech for…

I'm not who you were replying to, but he wasn't necessarily making an assumption. There is a philosophical theory named "effective altruism" which includes tenets such as cause prioritization, cost effectiveness and comparative wealth to (hopefully) allow the most good to be done the most efficiently.

In amongst those tenets is the precept of comparative wealth, quoted here:

> Many effective altruists believe that, as formulated by Peter Singer, "if it is in our power to prevent something bad from happening, without thereby sacrificing anything of comparable moral importance, we ought, morally, to do it".[18] Anyone with an income of above $52,000 PPP is in the 1% richest people globally.[19] Therefore, many effective altruists donate a significant portion of their income to highly effective charities, since doing so would not cause them to give up important purchases.

In short, if you're making six figures in tech, it is generally more charitable to keep doing the tech that you're doing and donate more, and if the tech work you're doing isn't a net negative, you'll be doing more good by donating your tech largesse to a seaweed farmer instead.

Re: Scientist discovers particular seaweed nearly eliminates cow methane emissions

#118
post #25
post #19

Not just for Bovines, for humans too, Seaweed can come to rescue: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/11/02/a-new-leaf

> Seaweed can be rich in protein, Vitamin B12, and trace minerals. The USDA nutrient database lists 8 types of seaweed. Only one of these these ("Canadian Cultivated EMI-TSUNOMATA") contains B12, and it appears to be a proprietary land-cultivated strain of Irish moss, so hardly representative of normal seaweed. The generic Irish moss is also listed with zero B12.

Plants are not able to make B12. Only bacteria and archaea are able to do that.

So either it's a some kind of symbiosis, or they are mixing it in afterward.

Re: Scientist discovers particular seaweed nearly eliminates cow methane emissions

#119
post #54

Can eating seaweed make human farts smell less offensive?

Methane does not smell. To quote wikipedia: "At room temperature and standard pressure, methane is a colorless, odorless gas. The familiar smell of natural gas as used in homes is achieved by the addition of an odorant, usually blends containing tert-butylthiol, as a safety measure."

The methane itself doesn't smell, but the gas carries along other compounds that would otherwise stay put. So reducing the gas can reduce smell.

Re: Scientist discovers particular seaweed nearly eliminates cow methane emissions

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP here. Your assuming I'd stay in tech to arbitrage the wage gap to give altruistically. You discount that maybe working in tech isn't what makes me happy (disclaimer: I like my current gig because of the people I get to work with, but nothing is forever), farming seaweed from my 41 foot catamaran (now depreciable as a business expense if commercially farming seaweed) might make me happier after working in tech for…

I'm not who you were replying to, but he wasn't necessarily making an assumption. There is a philosophical theory named "effective altruism" which includes tenets such as cause prioritization, cost effectiveness and comparative wealth to (hopefully) allow the most good to be done the most efficiently. In amongst those tenets is the precept of comparative wealth, quoted here: > Many effective altruists believe that, a…

You assumed OP wanted to be an optimally efficient altruist - but this wasn't suggested anywhere. If you read his above reply he explains briefly why he is still in tech and elaborates a bit on his goals.
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