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Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

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Re: Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

#71

Post by toomanybeersies »

randomdata wrote: post #64
darpa_escapee wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same company that shows employees videos that are equivalent to "Unions = bad, yuck, gross, not even once" during training. They have every incentive to prevent unionization. If workers have room to negotiate, that means they could negotiate for fair compensation. Reminder that our country's labor history is rife with straight up mass murder of workers because they demanded fair pay, safe working conditio…

> they could negotiate for fair compensation. What, exactly, is unfair about the current compensation? Walmart pays exactly what they and the employee agreed to at the onset of the employment agreement. Those who couldn't reach an agreement have do not provide work for Walmart at all. I really don't know how you can get any more fair than that? Everyone equally has the ability to decide what works for them and are fr…

> Those who couldn't reach an agreement have do not provide work for Walmart at all

This is completely untrue. There are a lot of people who need to work to eat and pay rent. Often they're backed into a corner where there's literally no other jobs available than Walmart, which means that Walmart can offer any wage they want and the potential employees have no options beyond accepting, or being on the street.

Re: Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

#72

Post by pbhjpbhj »

randomdata wrote: post #64
darpa_escapee wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same company that shows employees videos that are equivalent to "Unions = bad, yuck, gross, not even once" during training. They have every incentive to prevent unionization. If workers have room to negotiate, that means they could negotiate for fair compensation. Reminder that our country's labor history is rife with straight up mass murder of workers because they demanded fair pay, safe working conditio…

> they could negotiate for fair compensation. What, exactly, is unfair about the current compensation? Walmart pays exactly what they and the employee agreed to at the onset of the employment agreement. Those who couldn't reach an agreement have do not provide work for Walmart at all. I really don't know how you can get any more fair than that? Everyone equally has the ability to decide what works for them and are fr…

>Walmart pays exactly what they and the employee agreed to at the onset of the employment agreement. //

Seriously, do you think that's how it happens? Is that bluster, naivety, or what?

"He sonny, do you want to eat dirt or accept our below healthy subsistence wages?" seems closer to how it goes. People don't work for low wages because they can't bargain, they work for low wages because the alternative is for them not to work and the government won't mandate a Living Wage.

It's not fair because people who have less resources, from birth usually, are in a far worse bargaining position and usually don't have the occasion to negotiate their wages. The only chance they have to create leverage is to unionise and force the company to decide whether to waste 20% of their workforce and do a massive employment and training drive (or suffer a strike, or ...) or to accede to paying a, for example, inflation matching wage increase.

Re: Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

#73

Post by vacri »

randomdata wrote: post #64
darpa_escapee wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same company that shows employees videos that are equivalent to "Unions = bad, yuck, gross, not even once" during training. They have every incentive to prevent unionization. If workers have room to negotiate, that means they could negotiate for fair compensation. Reminder that our country's labor history is rife with straight up mass murder of workers because they demanded fair pay, safe working conditio…

> they could negotiate for fair compensation. What, exactly, is unfair about the current compensation? Walmart pays exactly what they and the employee agreed to at the onset of the employment agreement. Those who couldn't reach an agreement have do not provide work for Walmart at all. I really don't know how you can get any more fair than that? Everyone equally has the ability to decide what works for them and are fr…

When economies of scale have allowed Walmart to drive all the other shops out of business in your town, and you need to earn money to live, you don't exactly have a fair bargaining position as an employee.

Do you seriously believe that any of the floor staff at Walmart have been able to negotiate a separate wage for themselves?

Re: Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

#74

Post by state_less »

randomdata wrote: post #64
darpa_escapee wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same company that shows employees videos that are equivalent to "Unions = bad, yuck, gross, not even once" during training. They have every incentive to prevent unionization. If workers have room to negotiate, that means they could negotiate for fair compensation. Reminder that our country's labor history is rife with straight up mass murder of workers because they demanded fair pay, safe working conditio…

> they could negotiate for fair compensation. What, exactly, is unfair about the current compensation? Walmart pays exactly what they and the employee agreed to at the onset of the employment agreement. Those who couldn't reach an agreement have do not provide work for Walmart at all. I really don't know how you can get any more fair than that? Everyone equally has the ability to decide what works for them and are fr…

Were I a slave and then given an opportunity to be a indentured servant, sure I'd agree. That doesn't mean I live in good conditions. Yea, I could terminate the agreement and move on to being a slave again, but why would I?

It's an agreement made under duress, we can do better for these people. Don't you agree?

Re: Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

#75

Post by randomdata »

vacri wrote: post #73
randomdata wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they could negotiate for fair compensation. What, exactly, is unfair about the current compensation? Walmart pays exactly what they and the employee agreed to at the onset of the employment agreement. Those who couldn't reach an agreement have do not provide work for Walmart at all. I really don't know how you can get any more fair than that? Everyone equally has the ability to decide what works for them and are fr…

When economies of scale have allowed Walmart to drive all the other shops out of business in your town, and you need to earn money to live, you don't exactly have a fair bargaining position as an employee. Do you seriously believe that any of the floor staff at Walmart have been able to negotiate a separate wage for themselves?

> you don't exactly have a fair bargaining position as an employee.

Sure you do. You can choose exactly what you want out of the deal. That's also the problem.

> Do you seriously believe that any of the floor staff at Walmart have been able to negotiate a separate wage for themselves?

No, which is why we advocate removing the fairness. Fair does not equal good. Fair is what leads to this situation.

Re: Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

#76

Post by hammock »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #71
randomdata wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they could negotiate for fair compensation. What, exactly, is unfair about the current compensation? Walmart pays exactly what they and the employee agreed to at the onset of the employment agreement. Those who couldn't reach an agreement have do not provide work for Walmart at all. I really don't know how you can get any more fair than that? Everyone equally has the ability to decide what works for them and are fr…

> Those who couldn't reach an agreement have do not provide work for Walmart at all This is completely untrue. There are a lot of people who need to work to eat and pay rent. Often they're backed into a corner where there's literally no other jobs available than Walmart, which means that Walmart can offer any wage they want and the potential employees have no options beyond accepting, or being on the street.

When you put it that way, it sounds like Walmart is doing them a great service. Keeping them off the street. And saving the taxpayers welfare dollars at the same time.

Re: Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

#77

Post by bradleyankrom »

darpa_escapee wrote: post #46
microcolonel wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not interfering with the right to bargain collectively though. For all we know, they're genuinely warning their employees that they may be involved in a PII collection scam. They can't reprimand/dismiss you for using the app, but surely they can tell you it's unwise. I don't see why people are so quick to tie Wal-Mart to the pyre; for what they pay, their employees are satisfied to an outsized degree. Given t…

This is the same company that shows employees videos that are equivalent to "Unions = bad, yuck, gross, not even once" during training. They have every incentive to prevent unionization. If workers have room to negotiate, that means they could negotiate for fair compensation. Reminder that our country's labor history is rife with straight up mass murder of workers because they demanded fair pay, safe working conditio…

Probably off topic, but this reminded me of the only other retailer (that I'm aware of) that could challenge Walmart for the title of "most vehemently anti-union employer in America": Menards[0][1]

[0] http://gawker.com/menards-the-gold-standard-of-union-hating-...

[1] http://gawker.com/documents-how-a-major-company-bombards-emp...

Re: Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

#78

Post by chrisbennet »

Frondo wrote: post #27
0xcde4c3db wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's totally unsurprising to hear. Wal-Mart apparently defaults to portraying unions as pure evil. I don't know what the current procedure is like, but they used to make new hires watch laughably biased "educational" videos about unions. I don't remember the contents in detail, just that they roughly reminded me of '80s anti-drug PSAs/specials, with union organizers essentially taking the place of the "drug pusher"…

It works, too. In the popular media, unions have been so thoroughly demonized for several decades. Lots of middle-aged folks now will have grown up with their only idea of the union as being the lazy teamster who does nothing all day except file grievances, or the fabled electrician who won't plug in your power cord at a trade show because it's someone else's job. And the kinds of people who're going in for these job…

"Lots of middle-aged folks now will have grown up with their only idea of the union as being the lazy teamster who does nothing all day except file grievances, or the fabled electrician who won't plug in your power cord at a trade show because it's someone else's job."

Or have had the actual experience of not being allowed to plug in your own electrical cord at a trade show and blaming in on the union - which is probably right. I'm not saying unions are all bad but in the US ones don't have a good track record.

When the AFL-CIO asks for an exemption to the $15 minimum wage it doesn't help their image. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/12/los-angeles-...

Re: Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

#79

Post by sillysaurus3 »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #72
randomdata wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they could negotiate for fair compensation. What, exactly, is unfair about the current compensation? Walmart pays exactly what they and the employee agreed to at the onset of the employment agreement. Those who couldn't reach an agreement have do not provide work for Walmart at all. I really don't know how you can get any more fair than that? Everyone equally has the ability to decide what works for them and are fr…

>Walmart pays exactly what they and the employee agreed to at the onset of the employment agreement. // Seriously, do you think that's how it happens? Is that bluster, naivety, or what? "He sonny, do you want to eat dirt or accept our below healthy subsistence wages?" seems closer to how it goes. People don't work for low wages because they can't bargain, they work for low wages because the alternative is for them no…

Seriously, do you think that's how it happens? Is that bluster, naivety, or what?

Why not assume they're genuinely curious to learn rather than attack them? It gives better conversation.

Re: Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

#80

Post by vacri »

chrissnell wrote: post #52
adamnemecek wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> re: pro-worker laws against multi-national importers of Chinese made stuff. The pro-worker stuff was just to attract that demographic, I'm pretty sure.

I think that people should give the Trump administration a chance. The GOP knows that blue collar whites were the force behind his election. He's going to have to deliver for these laborers if he wants to have a chance in 2020.

If Trump goes up against Walmart and actually makes life better for those blue-collar whites, I'll literally buy a hat and eat it.

I doubt Trump will want a second term - he's made it now, and thumbed his nose at everyone. He'll find out that he can't just do what he wants as president and his days are ridiculously packed, and won't go for a second term.

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