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I had a health crisis in France

latimes.com

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Re: I had a health crisis in France

#101

Post by developer2 »

thro32 wrote: post #11

Real problem in US with health (and education...) is that cost has skyrocketed out of control. How much is hearth bypass ? $30k? Other countries do that for $4k with similar quality and better post-op care. Public health care will just transfer more money from poor to corporations (like with education). You need to fix the leaks first, for example sponsor medical tourism to other countries, etc...

Seriously. The quote from the article:

>> In the end, this entire ordeal set me back about 1,300 euros, or $1,455. I sometimes wonder how my health crisis would have played out had I returned to America instead of deciding to stay in Paris more than 20 years ago.

In the U.S., it's likely they would have died; or at least gone $100,000+ in debt - if they could have even qualified for that much credit.

I can understand not covering things like lung transplants for lifetime smokers, or other similar "meh it's their own fault" situations. But when it comes to treating the health of citizens who are not severely at fault for their conditions, there should be absolutely no cost to the individual. Taxes should be enough to handle this, without one's own insurance being part of the equation.

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#102

Post by alkonaut »

brianwawok wrote: post #89
Retric wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US has 75% higher infant mortality than France which has a real impact on life expectancy.

Look at infant mortality for college educated people in the two countries. Much more interesting. The US has massive population segments on drugs and other segments here illegal that dont get medical care. Generally if you are well off, the US is a fine place to be. If you are addicted or poor, it's not so great.

Healthcare alone is just one piece of the puzzle. Having a french style healthcare system without corresponding safety nets in other areas to fight poverty/addiction/inequality etc would be better than the status quo, but not very effective.

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#103

Post by galacticpony »

m_mueller wrote: post #67
wav-part wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I-don't-want-to-pay-for-others != I will not insure my health. US health system needs competition more than socialism [1]. [1] https://mises.org/blog/lack-epipen-competitors-fdas-fault EDIT: A really good comment from link above. Mark S - https://mises.org/blog/lack-epipen-competitors-fdas-fault#co... The culprit in virtually all health care or drug price gouging outrages is insurance and "free" taxpayer money. Ameri…

IMO the US health system needs stricter regulation. Switzerland is doing fine with a system very similar to Obamacare, with one important difference: Item prices for health services and goods are regulated by the government. Yes I know, small rich country yada yada - but if you look at it a bit more closely, the average Swiss is not that different from the average American - GDP per capita, median income, most live i…

Have you ever been to Switzerland? I have and I find this comparison absurd. It is a very small, very wealthy country with almost none of the structural problems faced in the US.

The nominal GDP in Switzerland is actually much higher than in the US, it's just that the country is way more expensive to live in. Therefore, when adjusted for cost-of-living (PPP), the GDP are about equal.

Of course, the absolute amount of money per capita is still much higher, which lowers the relative cost of, say, medical equipment.

The private healthcare in Switzerland is also compulsory and insurers are forced to offer a basic, non-profit plan. Furthermore, individual payments may be subsidized by the government. It's therefore not that different from Obamacare, nor are private insurers left to the devices of the "free market".

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#104

Post by developer2 »

lumberjack wrote: post #20
thro32 wrote: post #11

Real problem in US with health (and education...) is that cost has skyrocketed out of control. How much is hearth bypass ? $30k? Other countries do that for $4k with similar quality and better post-op care. Public health care will just transfer more money from poor to corporations (like with education). You need to fix the leaks first, for example sponsor medical tourism to other countries, etc...

I don't think "the cost skyrocketed out of control". The cost is simply reflective of the leverage the health care provider and all the middle men in between hold against the patient. It's just that in other countries you have the government setting up a monopsony and dictating costs and salaries. I don't see how charging $30k for a heart bypass is unreasonable for somebody making $50k/year.

>> I don't see how charging $30k for a heart bypass is unreasonable for somebody making $50k/year.

Wow, just wow. You must not have ever had a family member or close friend fall ill. If you think someone making $50k/year is financially capable of paying $30k up front, you need a reality check.

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#105

Post by srean »

fiftypounds wrote: post #38

I similar, but much less medically severe, experience with a gallbladder infection due to stones. This was in Germany. The cost of the sonogram and and ultrasound was c.a. 100 euro. The blood test was a pittance. And, becuase my medical German was/is very poor I had an exensive private consultation with the director of the E.R. who spoke near-natively fluent English. The total cost: 250 euro out-of-pocket The cost of…

This is a topic that has come up on HN so many times that I have lost count. I have come to the conclusion that the US milieu is so dogmatically against any alternative that the standards of a proof that they will demand to be acceptable far outstrips the standards that they will demand of other things. This is the diametric opposite of preaching to the choir. Ultimately its them who gets handed the shorter end of the stick. Some are rich enough that it does not affect them as much. What intrigues me is the behavior and rationalizations of those who cannot escape the adverse consequences. Forget drug and hospitalization pricing for the moment, just the institutionalized control (cartelization) of the license to practice medicine is a tell tale sign.

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#106

Post by kensai »

wav-part wrote: post #92
rapala wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I-don't-want-to-pay-for-others != I will not insure my health. But it is. Insurance works by pooling money from a group of people where only few are going to use it. >People never ask "So, what does this drug/treatment cost?" but rather "Do you accept my insurance?" Which makes sense, as survival and physical and mental well-being are humans primary needs.

> But it is. Insurance works by pooling money from a group of people where only few are going to use it. Except not everyone paying the same amount. Most pay nothing. That is, in socialist health care system. And I am not just refering to insurance but also investment toward better medical education. If there is medical advancement going on then we have to collectively make sure that we all get it at good price. I am…

> Except not everyone paying the same amount. Most pay nothing. That is, in socialist health care system.

Ehm, the national health care systems in Europe are paid by our taxes. The only persons who do not pay to them are those that are entitled NOT to pay (below poverty level, children, etc).

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#107

Post by bosie »

zdkl wrote: post #94
ekianjo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> free education ( university included ) La Fac is one of the worst places to get an education though.

If you're not in the fac mindset, sure. But still, equal access and cheap education is not something to spit at!

> If you're not in the fac mindset

what is a "fac mindset"?

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#108

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

iraklism wrote: post #30

I still giggle a bit every single time one of these EU healthcare stories pops up. It highlights a core difference between one of the two most "advanced" places in the western world. For us Europeans, we don't even think that free healthcare, free education ( university included ) , and free state support when things go wrong is a right. It is a as essential as a core human function as breathing and blinking. We don'…

>> free education ( university included )

keep in mind that this is not a given in all EU countries. In the UK (still an EU country, though not for long) one has to either get a student loan from the British state, or cover their own tuition fees.

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#109

Post by StevePerkins »

quantum_state wrote: post #96
jdub wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another way to look at it that I don't think the USA will be ready to understand any time soon: Universal health and education are (key parts of) freedom. You can even put a market spin on it: None of the risks involved in starting a small business in Australia have to do with health care for myself, or for people who might consider joining my small business as employees. I've never felt as if I'm giving up a…

With the election in US, I have to say that civilization in the country has been set back for many centuries.. not surprised to see a dog bites dog environment in the States...

> been set back for many centuries

Oh come ON, Internet...

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#110

Post by estel »

quantum_state wrote: post #96
jdub wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another way to look at it that I don't think the USA will be ready to understand any time soon: Universal health and education are (key parts of) freedom. You can even put a market spin on it: None of the risks involved in starting a small business in Australia have to do with health care for myself, or for people who might consider joining my small business as employees. I've never felt as if I'm giving up a…

With the election in US, I have to say that civilization in the country has been set back for many centuries.. not surprised to see a dog bites dog environment in the States...

A century is a very long time, even for a President.
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