I had a health crisis in France
21–30 of 312 posts
Re: I had a health crisis in France
#22For a Western European this is the normal.
As a matter of fact, I'm very surprised he had to pay anything at all. 1300 euro for hospital bed and food? This should be completely free.
Maybe he has some kind of private health insurance. Here it's very common when you have kids or you don't want to wait for your turn for non critical medical assistance.
Re: I had a health crisis in France
#23I was staying in a remote house, miles from the nearest village, an hour from the nearest hospital. After about four days of continuous vomiting in 40 degree heat I caved and called a doctor, in the hope of getting a prescription for antiemetics over the phone. It's Sunday. I figure it's a long shot but can't hurt.
Well, I call and she says "sorry, can't give you a prescription over the phone - but the doctor will be with you in ten minutes". I was sat there expecting a call back when the doctor shows up at my house. Checks me over, says I need IV fluids pronto, do you want an ambulance for €20 or do you want to get yourself there.
Wife gives me a ride to the hospital an hour away. The place has recently undergone big budget cuts so they've mothballed a big chunk of it, and it looked a bit sad, but inside everything was new and clean, and I'm seen within a few minutes of arriving. By a consultant surgeon who was called in to arrive a few minutes before me. I'm given fluids, blood tests, a CT and an MRI, and about six hours later an functioning again, and they're saying I can stay or leave, my choice, and here's a folder of information for you to follow up on back home.
All of this cost less than €60, and I honestly felt like I had all of France mustered and rallied to my care.
I had a similar experience earlier this year in the U.K., and the contrast was significant - in the U.K. one feels like an irritation and an inconvenience. "Bloody hell, what's a patient doing here? This is a hospital!". I still got decent treatment, of course, but it was all with a grumbling, discontented overtone - and despite it being a new (15 yr) old hospital, unbelievable amounts of equipment didn't work. There was a diabetic guy on a sugar monitor/drip on my ward that kept crashing - so their solution was to have him wake up and reboot it every 20 minutes so he didn't die. They didn't have another one available.
It's just astonishing to see how two supposedly similar socialised healthcare systems can end up so very different in their output.
Re: I had a health crisis in France
#24Medicine is one of those few fields the "socialized" approach is actually the better one. Of course you would prefer a I-don't-want-to-pay-for-others* stance when you are young and healthy (ie provided you were not born with a genetic condition or something similar), but once you start aging and caring, you start appreciating why Medicine as practiced in Europe makes much more sense in the end. *even Ayn Rand alleged…
US health system needs competition more than socialism [1].
[1] https://mises.org/blog/lack-epipen-competitors-fdas-fault
EDIT: A really good comment from link above.
Mark S - https://mises.org/blog/lack-epipen-competitors-fdas-fault#co...
The culprit in virtually all health care or drug price gouging outrages is insurance and "free" taxpayer money. Americans want someone else to pay for their health care -- the insurance pool, Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, the hospital (if they are indigent). Drug makers know that someone else (not the patient) is paying for the drug, that payee has no economic incentive to minimize costs, and so drug makers do not care or have an economic incentive to control their costs or limit their prices. Somebody else is paying, so who care what the drug costs. Insurance companies pass costs along in the form of escalating premiums, so they have no incentive to control costs (especially in the Obamacare environment where health insurance providers are exiting the market leaving the remaining firms with a monopoly); giverment health programs have virtually unlimited access to taxpayer money (and, in the end, money printed by the Fed), so they have no incentive to control costs; health care providers also know that the patient is not paying the bill, so they have no incentive to prescribe or investigate more afforadable alternatives.
People never ask "So, what does this drug/treatment cost?" but rather "Do you accept my insurance?"
Re: I had a health crisis in France
#25> My individual burden, however, is far more reasonable than > an American might assume. I pay an annual income tax of > about 23%. How comes this number is that low? Tax revenue in France account for about 48% of the country's GDP[1]. I'm living in Belgium, and my payroll tax is already higher than these 23%. -- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_reven...
In France you pay 0 % taxes for the first 9.700 € of income, then 14 % for everything up to 26.791 €, then 30 % for everything up to 71.826 €, then 41 % for everything up to 152.108 € and 45 % for everything beyond that [1]. Hence 23 % effective tax rate sounds reasonable for an average income of around 50.000 €. The tax system in many European countries is similar btw, as is the health system. [1] https://fr.wikiped…
Re: I had a health crisis in France
#26> My individual burden, however, is far more reasonable than > an American might assume. I pay an annual income tax of > about 23%. How comes this number is that low? Tax revenue in France account for about 48% of the country's GDP[1]. I'm living in Belgium, and my payroll tax is already higher than these 23%. -- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_reven...
In France you pay 0 % taxes for the first 9.700 € of income, then 14 % for everything up to 26.791 €, then 30 % for everything up to 71.826 €, then 41 % for everything up to 152.108 € and 45 % for everything beyond that [1]. Hence 23 % effective tax rate sounds reasonable for an average income of around 50.000 €. The tax system in many European countries is similar btw, as is the health system. [1] https://fr.wikiped…
Re: I had a health crisis in France
#27The US spends more per capita on health care than other OECD countries, even ones with universal public health care: http://kff.org/health-costs/issue-brief/snapshots-health-car... And yet the US has lower life expectancy than those countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expe...
Infant mortality is also 75% higher in the US compared to France: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/...
Re: I had a health crisis in France
#28There is little evaluation of physicians so picking a hospital is very much a lottery, unless you know insiders who will tell you where to go and not to go.
The system runs a massive financial deficit.
It is run in an administrative way which creates odds behaviors. For instance department allowances based on % of occupation of hospital beds, which lead them to keep people overnight unnecessarily to preserve their budgets.
The system is very liberal in term of allowing you to see specialists. That's great in certain ways. The UK suffers from the opposite, where generalists' job seem to be to prevent people from seeing a specialist. But it is also a paradise for hypochondriac patients who will do dozens of useless exams subsidised by the tax payer.
Like many centralised etatic system (and particularly in France), friends in the right places, political affiliation and freemasonry are more important drivers for a career than medecine.
Re: I had a health crisis in France
#29For a Western European this is the normal.
As a matter of fact, I'm very surprised he had to pay anything at all. 1300 euro for hospital bed and food? This should be completely free.
Re: I had a health crisis in France
#30It highlights a core difference between one of the two most "advanced" places in the western world.
For us Europeans, we don't even think that free healthcare, free education ( university included ) , and free state support when things go wrong is a right.
It is a as essential as a core human function as breathing and blinking. We don't notice it, it's just there.
And most of us are more than happy to pay higher taxes in order for us ( or our fellow citizens ) to enjoy these.
Granted , our taxes could be better managed, institutions could be more efficient, and governments less corrupt. But until someone shows us - with long term data backing up these claims - that there is a better alternative , we will keep giggling .