Earlier quoted context omitted.
When the finder failed to take adequate steps to return the phone and then sold it to another party it was no longer lost, it was stolen.
Maybe so. But that doesn't answer the question as to why this stolen phone -- apart from the millions of other items stolen in California and reported to the police -- deserved special treatment by law enforcement, and warranted the use of unusual and aggressive measures to obtain information about it. It's still just a single phone, a phone that's been returned to its owner. Maybe Apple was damaged by the loss in a…
Why Is Apple's iPhone Prototype Entitled To More Justice?
41–50 of 59 posts
Re: Why Is Apple's iPhone Prototype Entitled To More Justice?
#42People are ignoring the media aspect to all of this. You do not want such a public case to go unpunished or ignored by the state. If some random phone gets lost obviously you aren't going to spend too much resources on this because there aren't enough available. I'm pretty sure not all such individual cases are ignored, so it's not like only the corporations "receive justice". But, having such a public case about a p…
Re: Why Is Apple's iPhone Prototype Entitled To More Justice?
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe so. But that doesn't answer the question as to why this stolen phone -- apart from the millions of other items stolen in California and reported to the police -- deserved special treatment by law enforcement, and warranted the use of unusual and aggressive measures to obtain information about it. It's still just a single phone, a phone that's been returned to its owner. Maybe Apple was damaged by the loss in a…
Because stealing someone's iPhone off a restaurant table isn't a felony, it's petty theft. You're trivializing what the new iPhone is. It represented millions of dollars of R&D and contained proprietary information so is therefor potentially protected under trade secret laws. There's no functional difference between publicizing the physical phone or it's blueprints: you're competition knows what you're up to (and can…
The most Gawker revealed was (1) features readily observable on the outside and (2) information printed on the components when the device was opened. Obviously, none that would be considered a "trade secret" once the iPhone was up for sale on the market.
Can a feature list be considered a trade secretly few months before the items released? That's a tough one, particularly because Apple itself released this iPhone into the wild, where it was found by a third party. It's not like Gawker snuck into Apple's campus and found some research for products contemplated way in the future, product so far off that Apple had not yet filed a patent on the technology. (By way of background, the whole purpose of trade secret law is to protect things that a person doesn't want to disclose publicly by patenting. Almost by definition, a trade secret has to be something that was patentable, and so far nothing on the prototype iPhone looks like it was patentable.)
All of which brings us back to the central point: it's debatable if Apple even suffered a legally-cognizable injury by virtue of someone bringing publicity to a device Apple, through its employee, left out in the wild. In light of that, and in light of the serious concerns about journalistic shield, REACT should have shown caution. Instead, they took the most aggressive approach they could have.
Re: Why Is Apple's iPhone Prototype Entitled To More Justice?
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
But it was not stolen: the Apple employee who had been in possession of the prototype, Gray Powell, admits that he got drunk and accidentally left the phone at the bar. It was not stolen. It was lost.
I don't remember Gray Powell ever making a statement to that effect. That was Gizmodo side of the story.
Gray admits he left the phone at the bar, and then came back later (presumably sober, the next day) and was upset when it wasn't there. He may as well have given it away. The phone was not stolen. It was carelessly lost.
Re: Why Is Apple's iPhone Prototype Entitled To More Justice?
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
But it was not stolen: the Apple employee who had been in possession of the prototype, Gray Powell, admits that he got drunk and accidentally left the phone at the bar. It was not stolen. It was lost.
When the finder failed to take adequate steps to return the phone and then sold it to another party it was no longer lost, it was stolen.
Re: Why Is Apple's iPhone Prototype Entitled To More Justice?
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
When the finder failed to take adequate steps to return the phone and then sold it to another party it was no longer lost, it was stolen.
By whose definition? I have doubts about yours.
Re: Why Is Apple's iPhone Prototype Entitled To More Justice?
#47The OP's counterexample, the Gonzales case, is just an example of "won't someone think of the children?", and I have little patience for such arguments, designed to evoke emotion rather than reason. While you might not like it, Apple's marketing plans probably do have a larger impact on our society than does OP's hypothetical lost phone. It's unfortunate, but the realities of life force us to draw lines somewhere.
Maybe so. But if so, then REACT shouldn't have any trouble explaining why the investigation of this single phone was so important. There are thousands of IT businesses that have been cheated, defrauded, stolen from, and counterfeited, and yet Apple's already-returned single phone gets preferential treatment. Why? Your explanation might be perfectly valid, but it's not the explanation REACT has given. They haven't exp…
Now, if I may paraphrase, you're saying 'all this for a single phone that is going to be sold to millions anyway? pfff.' But you know it's a prototype, if you've followed the story closely, you know that Gawker did publish "more than information the appearance of the phone": http://gizmodo.com/5520876/the-next-iphone-dissected - such things are not readily ascertainable by proper means, so I don't think IDX v Epic systems is a good comparison.
You say there are 'thousands of businesses [that have been wronged] and yet Apple [...] gets preferential treatment.' I can't agree. A quick search of justice.gov for the terms ''economic espionage' arrested' - a different jurisdiction, to be sure, but a similar kind of enforcement - yields over 100 cases of the police power being used on behalf of companies' intellectual property - and as we both know, a comprehensive search through legal databases would turn up many more. We both know that IP theft or misappropriation isn't about the physical devices, DVDs or sheets of paper which may go missing, but about the large sums of money and time that go into their development: which money and time represent the assets and jobs of a good many people, and may have a large bearing on their economic security.
I don't know about Philadelphia, but here on the west coast US customs regularly find shipments of counterfeit devices; here's a recent (pre-Gizmodo) story about a batch of 2000 such units: http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/peninsul... The numbers seized here are trivial in comparison to those sold abroad. Although black markets are notoriously hard to estimate, extrapolating from recent assessments by Nokia suggest that annual production of counterfeit iPhones might amount to ~2.5 million units (http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2010/03/revised...). Obviously not every purchaser of a fake would or could buy a real device, but even if we assume the number of actual lost sales is only 20% of fake sales, based on the typical price differential of fake and real units, we're still looking at something in the region of a quarter-billion dollars a year in lost revenue.
Now, while this is not Gizmodo's fault - and like other gadget blogs, they frequently 'out' fake devices as fake - showcasing the interior construction of the new iPhone several months ahead of release is surely a significant, if incidental, assist to black market manufacturers. What engineer wouldn't be delighted to get a head start on their design cycle? I'd wager that a fake iPhone v4 appears for sale in China before the release of the genuine device by Apple, anticipated in June.
I mean, suppose this happened to you - a few months out from important litigation, a draft of your brief is accidentally exposed - perhaps a paralegal briefly mis-configures the wi-fi settings on a laptop, allowing a 'guest' to access it and open a file. I've seen it happen. Some freewheeling industry blog buys the document, disseminates it widely, and gleefully mocks your staffer's preference for triple-cream lattes and weak understanding of wireless networking for added yuks. Your case is strong enough on its merit to litigate successfully, but the incident would still be a nightmare for your firm, would it not?
Now, to address your headline question of whether the police should be equally or more assiduous where missing children are concerned - undoubtedly. But the contrast you draw is a poor match in time, scope, and geography, and borders on saying that one enforcement action is unjustified because an unrelated police department once failed to serve the public effectively, with a horrible outcome.
I'm glad to have found your blog, which has many interesting and thought-provoking articles. But I really feel your approach to this episode has been somewhat one-sided. True, there are issues of press freedom at stake whenever police find cause to investigate members of the media. But there are also issues of wilful misappropriation of private IP, publication resulting in private harm but no obvious public benefit, and a management team carelessly exposing junior employees to civil and criminal liability.
Disclaimers: I'm not an attorney, have never owned any Apple hardware, software, or stock, have no connection with anyone even remotely close to this case. I admit having a bee in my bonnet about this; in a past life I was a tech journalist at PC Magazine (UK) and feel personally offended by Gawker Media's cavalier ethical outlook.
Re: Why Is Apple's iPhone Prototype Entitled To More Justice?
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
Selectively enforcing high-profile offenses is a valid strategy if you want the increased awareness to be used as a dissuader for similar offenses, so, I understand when the prosecution wants to be "overzealous" when it comes to a valuable prototype. Having said that, what happened to that woman is inexcusable. I understand police doesn't want to be used to intimidate a parent on behalf of other parent, but this inac…
"Selectively enforcing high-profile offenses is a valid strategy if you want the increased awareness to be used as a dissuader for similar offenses, so, I understand when the prosecution wants to be "overzealous" when it comes to a valuable prototype." I can respect that. But that also raises a number of questions. Does REACT believe that this incident will create a wave of prototype thefts by journalists? Do they be…
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/04/gizmodo-search-warrant-...
Re: Why Is Apple's iPhone Prototype Entitled To More Justice?
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because stealing someone's iPhone off a restaurant table isn't a felony, it's petty theft. You're trivializing what the new iPhone is. It represented millions of dollars of R&D and contained proprietary information so is therefor potentially protected under trade secret laws. There's no functional difference between publicizing the physical phone or it's blueprints: you're competition knows what you're up to (and can…
As I put in the post, "A trade-secret claim based on readily observable material is a bust." IDX Systems Corp. v. Epic Systems Corp., 285 F. 3d 581, 584 (7th Cir. 2002). The most Gawker revealed was (1) features readily observable on the outside and (2) information printed on the components when the device was opened. Obviously, none that would be considered a "trade secret" once the iPhone was up for sale on the mar…
For example, if Apple is negotiating pricing for current models and other party was willing to pay more pre-leak because the did not think the next gen would be as large of an upgrade.
Re: Why Is Apple's iPhone Prototype Entitled To More Justice?
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hacker News is not only about hacking. Hacker News is about delivering content that is entertaining and useful to people that are programmers or people that are planning or currently running a start-up. This is actually completely relevant because anything involving this story could involve a small business that finds itself in a similar situation. Gizmodo could have been a small startup idea that only had a few view…
> anything involving this story Sorry, I don't believe that anything involving the story is relevant to HN, nor do I believe that anything entertaining is HN. The acid test is "Anything that would gratify our intellectual curiosity." Some issues connected to this story do, some do not. Remember that almost everyone here reads multiple sources of information: We read reddit, we read stackoverflow, we are on twitter. T…
What does it teach me about running a start-up?
I'd say quite a lot; core IP can be very hard to keep secure, you should be suspicious of people offering to sell you IP without clear proof of ownership, you can unwittingly incur legal responsibilities at the same time as material benefits, and economic considerations often trump ethical ones.