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The End of Identity Liberalism

nytimes.com

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Re: The End of Identity Liberalism

#21

Post by r00fus »

jimbokun wrote: post #11
return0 wrote: post #9

Was identity politics a concrete thing or a construction? It seems HRC bet her entire campaign on that and it backfired spectacularly. Were they hoping that it would catch on? Based on what evidence?

Probably just hoping the Obama coalition would just automatically flow over to her, with no specific outreach on her part. Most of them did (the biggest share of popular votes) just not quite enough to win the Electoral College.

Clinton was down over 5M votes compared to even Obama in 2012.

Either the voting machines were hacked, or she did an abysmal job in outreach... her hiring of David Brock (of Correct the Record) to essentially character-assassinate Sanders supporters might have had something to do with her loss - she won the battle then lost the war.

Re: The End of Identity Liberalism

#23

Post by admstockdale »

egberts1 wrote: post #14

The failure is the liberals overexerting the intersectionality into that those of "FORCED intersectionality". America and the people are always about "UNFORCED intersectionality". Yet, the Democrats will continue their 9-year slide at representation until they get this.

What do you mean by forced intersectionality and unforced intersectionality? Can you expand on this?

Re: The End of Identity Liberalism

#24

Post by ryandrake »

apkostka wrote: post #15
ryandrake wrote: post #13

Let's not start the funeral quite yet. It can also be argued that this year was a probabilistic outlier: Archie Bunker Conservatism played their last lottery ticket and improbably won. A last dying gasp before the country's measurable, inevitable demographic changes continue on their way towards obsoleting its political views.

Not sure if you read it, but the article argues against this exact point. The longer a demographic is a part of the American political process, the more politically diverse (and less predictable) they become. The article gives the remarkably high percentage of latinos who voted for Trump.

I read it but I disagree. Identity is not just wrapped up in race--age matters too. History has shown that political change comes with generational change--one funeral as a time. "Latinos" may become more diverse and less predictable year after year, but people (and their political views) don't tend to come back from the dead.

Re: The End of Identity Liberalism

#25

Post by jshevek »

throwanem wrote: post #17
jimbokun wrote: post #12

Also, the AltRight is explicitly about adopting identity politics for the white majority. "I care about us more. That's all I'm saying. But I respect identitarians of other races. And I actually can see eye to eye with them in a way that your average conservative can't." http://www.npr.org/2016/11/17/502476139/were-not-going-away-... And of course, many are arguing Trump's campaign was an appeal to white identity, al…

I know a number of people who proudly adopt the label, none of whom had even heard of Richard Spencer before NPR and the like started talking him up. I haven't been able to find anyone who even knows anyone who thinks it's accurate to call Richard Spencer the, or even a , leader of the alt-right. If anyone can fairly be said to stand in that role, it'd be Milo Yiannopoulos, so I suppose it's not entirely unreasonable…

I agree it is not reasonable to say Milo is a white supremacist, in fact they seem to hate him. This says something, I think, about how the term alt right is used.

While white supremacists coined the term, they clearly don't own it anymore. Whomever Milo is the leader of, they don't overlap well with white supremacists. alt-right.

Re: The End of Identity Liberalism

#26

Post by gcr »

m_mueller wrote: post #20
nickbauman wrote: post #6

The intent of "identity liberalism" (an awful neologism: I'd prefer "identity emphatic") is to try to end otherization of out-groups. But Lilla's point is right on. The result is often divisive rather than inclusive. My white uncle is famous for saying "You should never discriminate against people because they're different. But why do those people keep coming over here?" o_0

I'm not sure why you chose to mock your unvle after your first paragraph. Am I missing your /s tag or are you missing the irony .. of calling your uncle your white uncle. why is that so important to have it his main attribute? .. of emphasizing those people - was that really his emphasis or is it rather you who turns around his words into something he didn't say? .. of not trying to understand his point, rather to im…

> If anyone who does that is a bigot, then boy, everyone is a bigot sometime - and the distinction is meaningless.

Nah. Different races are different, sure. In-group and out-group. But there's also a power element that you're not considering. Black vs white is in-group and out-group, but one of those groups is disenfranchised. That's where the racism comes in. It is anything but meaningless.

Re: The End of Identity Liberalism

#27

Post by postcarnival »

ryandrake wrote: post #13

Let's not start the funeral quite yet. It can also be argued that this year was a probabilistic outlier: Archie Bunker Conservatism played their last lottery ticket and improbably won. A last dying gasp before the country's measurable, inevitable demographic changes continue on their way towards obsoleting its political views.

a precursor to the fall of the American empire

Re: The End of Identity Liberalism

#28

Post by mc32 »

jimbokun wrote: post #12

Also, the AltRight is explicitly about adopting identity politics for the white majority. "I care about us more. That's all I'm saying. But I respect identitarians of other races. And I actually can see eye to eye with them in a way that your average conservative can't." http://www.npr.org/2016/11/17/502476139/were-not-going-away-... And of course, many are arguing Trump's campaign was an appeal to white identity, al…

I hope that does not happen [and hoping the new admin does not succumb to the allure]. It was bad enough with the manner in which the left embraced identity politics to further their causes [good as they might be] because it didn't seem to lead to constructive politics, but rather the opposite because there was one big group of disenfranchised population which was disregarded and often dismissed with 'white privilege'. They might be white, but economically they share little with the professional class.

What I can see happening is poor/disadvantaged of all races coalesce around their shared economic frustration so that the major parties begin to address the economics which affect them so negatively in a comprehensive manner.

Re: The End of Identity Liberalism

#29

Post by forkandwait »

I wish their were a labor wing of the Democratic party.

The sooner we lose the identity bullshit the better. Of equal rights need to be championed, but so do classic thing like safety, consumer protections, public education, minimum wage etc.

Oh wait, Bernie won my primary...

Re: The End of Identity Liberalism

#30

Post by throwanem »

jshevek wrote: post #25
throwanem wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a number of people who proudly adopt the label, none of whom had even heard of Richard Spencer before NPR and the like started talking him up. I haven't been able to find anyone who even knows anyone who thinks it's accurate to call Richard Spencer the, or even a , leader of the alt-right. If anyone can fairly be said to stand in that role, it'd be Milo Yiannopoulos, so I suppose it's not entirely unreasonable…

I agree it is not reasonable to say Milo is a white supremacist, in fact they seem to hate him. This says something, I think, about how the term alt right is used. While white supremacists coined the term, they clearly don't own it anymore. Whomever Milo is the leader of, they don't overlap well with white supremacists. alt-right.

They hate him, all right. He's half Jewish. That's enough.

Did white supremacists coin the term, though? I haven't been able to substantiate that, either.

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