The psychology of stress and burnout • Hacker News Board

Re: The psychology of stress and burnout

#61

Post by saiya-jin » Fri, Nov 18, 2016, 3:13 PM UTC

dschiptsov wrote: post #16

Are they trying to say that exercises are good to us, until it is too much? What does not kill us makes us stronger.

you can screw up your body in numerous ways if you overdo it, ie grow enlarged heart, screw up joints or spine and end up semi-disabled relatively young. just look at pro lifters, most of them after career end up obese with various health issues, some barely able to walk or lift anything more than sheet of paper.

it's a think line to walk, unique to each of us, where you try to grow as much as you can without crossing it

Re: The psychology of stress and burnout

#62

Post by 0xcde4c3db » Fri, Nov 18, 2016, 3:15 PM UTC

qntty wrote: post #48

emilburzo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (maybe you should tell someone who has pancreatic cancer "Oh it's all in your belly") Well... isn't it? I actually phrased it as "it's all in your head" to highlight that you _can_ do something about it, unlike cancer, it's something you can control by power of mind/will (not saying it's easy). - formerly burned out.

The fact that something is "all in your head" doesn't imply much about how much control you might have over it. Schizophrenia is "all in your head." Some people do have a reasonable amount of control over the situation, but many people have little control.

> The fact that something is "all in your head" doesn't imply much about how much control you might have over it. Schizophrenia is "all in your head."

So is a brain tumor or glaucoma, in a literal sense, but I doubt many people would seriously use the expression "all in your head" for any of those. In my experience it's overwhelmingly used for anxiety and depression, with the implication being that there's no hard physical problem and that you just need to change your habits/attitude/beliefs (which, incidentally, is an approach that is notably ineffective for schizophrenia, apart from being done with others as a harm reduction mechanism).

Re: The psychology of stress and burnout

#63

Post by cableshaft » Fri, Nov 18, 2016, 3:34 PM UTC

emilburzo wrote: post #13

oarsinsync wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, exactly this. By increasing the regularity with which I exercise and engage in other non-IT pursuits, my ability to deal with bullshit at work has grown tremendously. I think it boils down to this: The more you value your out-of-the-office life and the more enjoyment you gain from it, the less negative impact your job can have on your life. Of course that's dependent on having a job that permits you to have a li…

> By increasing the regularity with which I exercise and engage in other non-IT pursuits, my ability to deal with bullshit at work has grown tremendously. Perfect summary. > Of course that's dependent on having a job that permits you to have a life outside of work It probably explains the increased demand for flexible hours. Although a lot of employers view that as a signal that the employee is a slacker, when I'm ac…

Video games and board games for me, especially strategy games or tricky action/puzzle games. On weeks where I don't play them I get a lot more irritable, and I pretty much completely forget the outside world while I'm playing them.

Walks in nature also do wonders for alleviating my mood. I've actually started taking outdoor walking breaks at work since the circumstances of this year lead to a lot less opportunity to walk out in nature than usual. This is also why I try not to work in a major city, because I need to see trees, grass, and hopefully flowing water on a regular basis.

Re: The psychology of stress and burnout

#64

Post by heisenbit » Fri, Nov 18, 2016, 3:38 PM UTC

emilburzo wrote: post #7

It's all in your head, for better or worse. Extreme sports or intense physical exertion have been key, for me, in dealing with daily stress. And no, I'm not some superstar adrenaline pumped athlete, just an amateur that loves skydiving/paragliding/fast motorcycles/hiking/etc over the weekend. I didn't realize how much these activities help me, until I had to take a break from them for whatever reason (e.g.: winter wh…

> It's all in your head, for better or worse.

It originates from the head but the impact is on the whole body impacting the HPA and other hormonal systems. And later whatever is controlled by them e.g. body fat. And once it impacts the body additional distress signals may be generated there. Healing obviously needs to take into account the head but that may not be enough.

Prevention and early counter measures are very critical!

Re: The psychology of stress and burnout

#65

Post by freelancezombie » Fri, Nov 18, 2016, 3:39 PM UTC

dig1 wrote: post #36

quickben wrote: post #24

I have a friend that is to damn good as a developer and allowed one of the big Canadian companies failed projects to burn him out thoroughly. He is looking into opening a bakery now, and by the look of it, no amount of convincing is going to change his mind. So no matter what you do, your mental robustness and coherency comes first. Don't let anybody every come close at touching that. Btw opening a bakery is an amazi…

As someone who's been there, it all depends how hard it was. You can recover from light burnouts quickly (by traveling, taking sports), however, hard burnouts change you for life - you'll be lucky to not end up as alcoholic or drug addict. For me, it took couple of years and few failed jobs until I got on track. Today, I'm more than happy to be my own boss as freelancer.

Good to hear you found your way. I'm getting burned out on freelance.

Re: The psychology of stress and burnout

#66

Post by madaxe_again » Fri, Nov 18, 2016, 3:44 PM UTC

framebit wrote: post #60

madaxe_again wrote: post #23

A large part of why I left my business after eleven years six months ago was because I mismanaged stress to the degree that it had severe consequences upon my health. At the time, like a frog in warming water, I constantly normalised it - working 20 hours a day for a year isn't stressful, it's heroic! I enjoy this! I thrive on stress. The booze? Oh, that's just to help keep me awake. About four years ago I stopped ea…

I'm so sorry about the cyclical vomiting syndrome. I've watched a friend wrestle with it for years, it's no joke. Her's is also triggered by positive stress, like excitement to see a favorite band in concert. I'm so glad for you that things are turning around in your life. It sounds like you've had to do some hard work to get here. Thank you for sharing. > There's an almost dangerously cultish obsession with industri…

Mine was (I really hope the past tense continues to apply) also triggered by both positive and negative stress - weddings and work disasters prime catalysts - but I think the constant high background level of stress was a mandatory part of it. Used to wake up every morning feeling sick. Don't any more. Haven't had an attack since I out and out quit.

I hope she continues to find a way through it - it sucked even more when I had no idea what it was, and was rationalising it, sometimes into nightmarish proportions.

Re: The psychology of stress and burnout

#67

Post by cableshaft » Fri, Nov 18, 2016, 3:49 PM UTC

madaxe_again wrote: post #23

A large part of why I left my business after eleven years six months ago was because I mismanaged stress to the degree that it had severe consequences upon my health. At the time, like a frog in warming water, I constantly normalised it - working 20 hours a day for a year isn't stressful, it's heroic! I enjoy this! I thrive on stress. The booze? Oh, that's just to help keep me awake. About four years ago I stopped ea…

> There's an almost dangerously cultish obsession with industriousness in our society.

Yes, exactly. This behavior is encouraged and ingrained in just about every aspect of Western culture (especially American culture), and it's ruining people's lives. "I pulled myself by my bootstraps, so you should too! Nevermind I did it right after WW2 when America was most prosperous and other countries were rebuilding, nothing has changed at all in 50 years, you can easily do it too!"

People pretty much have to go through burnout themselves in order to stop buying into the cult-like behavior.

I spent most of my 20s working for startups and constantly being stressed out and working crazy hours because they weren't doing so well, and I wanted them to succeed. It took being hospitalized for me to finally disconnect from it a bit.

I also didn't look as hard as I should have for a new job when I was laid off, and that time helped me recover, although it wrecked my finances in the meantime, which I'm still recovering from.

Best of luck to you.

Re: The psychology of stress and burnout

#68

Post by thorin » Fri, Nov 18, 2016, 3:51 PM UTC

emilburzo wrote: post #7

It's all in your head, for better or worse. Extreme sports or intense physical exertion have been key, for me, in dealing with daily stress. And no, I'm not some superstar adrenaline pumped athlete, just an amateur that loves skydiving/paragliding/fast motorcycles/hiking/etc over the weekend. I didn't realize how much these activities help me, until I had to take a break from them for whatever reason (e.g.: winter wh…

I had this perspective being involved in a few sports some would consider "extreme" it was a fantastic distraction to be totally engaged in a sport and out in the outdoors with a brilliant community of like-minded friends. However after having a serious injury and witnessing a death of a a couple of friends it didn't seem like fun anymore.

Nowadays family life provides enough of a contrast to work as does a few holidays in the mountains and some day trips hiking in the countryside.

Re: The psychology of stress and burnout

#69

Post by digler999 » Fri, Nov 18, 2016, 3:55 PM UTC

Kenji wrote: post #19

I love how people are like "go for a walk" or "work out" or "sleep more" or "it's all in your head" (maybe you should tell someone who has pancreatic cancer "Oh it's all in your belly"). It seems to me like most people don't understand the incredible destructiveness and pain of an actual burnout. How trapped you are and how you do not see any way out anymore. I nearly got there and I have seen people who have been cr…

so people shouldn't suggest taking remedial or preventative action (work out), because there are incredibly destructive consequences and pain from burnout ? If we conceded that a stressed person is "trapped", what should we do then ? silently ignore them and not suggest they attempt to break out ? If people can break out of crippling chemical dependency, people can break out of depression. It's not fucking easy, but it's possible and people do it all the time.

Re: The psychology of stress and burnout

#70

Post by gmfawcett » Fri, Nov 18, 2016, 4:02 PM UTC

I recommend Christina Maslach's books on the subject of burnout. Her research tends to focus on institutional and group-dynamic causes of burnout, which is a nice counterpoint to the self-care and personal-wellness discussions that people often have around the subject.