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A demonstration of browser events used to monitor online behaviour

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Re: A demonstration of browser events used to monitor online behaviour

#101

Post by enraged_camel »

pdkl95 wrote: post #97
dx034 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really horrified. Yes they save it, but they don't seem to be able to use it well. The ads I get on Facebook are sometimes really interesting (i.e. targeted well), on other pages it's mostly stuff I bought a while ago or topics where I don't even have a clue why they think that could be interesting. And even though they can save it forever, it's outdated pretty quickly. If someone has information that I clicked a…

> they don't seem to be able to use it well You are implicitly assuming that this won't change. Databases persist indefinitely. > The information is only valid for hours or days. This simply isn't true. You seem to be only thinking about single data points, not the entire picture about your life that is painted when you aggregate that all of the captured data. For example, timestamps of your clicks build a pattern ab…

>>Databases persist indefinitely.

They can, but most don't, simply because it's not worth the effort and expense.

Re: A demonstration of browser events used to monitor online behaviour

#102

Post by falcolas »

dx034 wrote: post #73
danfromberlin wrote: post #34

Who else feels a sense of horrible dread and frustration that every minutiae of my (and your) online activity is recorded for eternity and exploited to the fullest extent? What are you going to do about it?

Not really horrified. Yes they save it, but they don't seem to be able to use it well. The ads I get on Facebook are sometimes really interesting (i.e. targeted well), on other pages it's mostly stuff I bought a while ago or topics where I don't even have a clue why they think that could be interesting. And even though they can save it forever, it's outdated pretty quickly. If someone has information that I clicked a…

> they don't seem to be able to use it well

Or they are intentionally dialing back on the accuracy.

Being too accurate in your advertising is like delving into the uncanny valley of CGI. It gets spooky and makes people intentionally shy away from your products.

So, perhaps they're following the same trajectory as CGI: adding intentional inaccuracy to mask their actual targeted ads. If I saw the one thing I wanted in a lineup of four other poorly targeted ads, I'd be less likely to consider it as spooky, and more likely to treat it as I would any other advertisement. These companies follow you around the internet for years, after all. They can afford to play a long game.

Or it's just my tinfoil hat. Either way.

Re: A demonstration of browser events used to monitor online behaviour

#103

Post by anc84 »

truth_sentinell wrote: post #87
SixSigma wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference though. I can selectively turn things on / off. If I have to turn on >5 websites to see the content it suddenly has less value and I shrug and close

I really can't understand the people that browse the internet without JS. Like what's the point? JS is part of the web, deal with it.

Boring old argument again and again.

99% of the distraction, tracking, annoyance of the modern web are due to JS. Blocking it will not "break most sites", you can usually read just fine. Selectively allowing JS per domain works great. Try it, you might be surprised and not talk down to us anymore.

Re: A demonstration of browser events used to monitor online behaviour

#104

Post by falcolas »

enraged_camel wrote: post #101
pdkl95 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they don't seem to be able to use it well You are implicitly assuming that this won't change. Databases persist indefinitely. > The information is only valid for hours or days. This simply isn't true. You seem to be only thinking about single data points, not the entire picture about your life that is painted when you aggregate that all of the captured data. For example, timestamps of your clicks build a pattern ab…

>>Databases persist indefinitely. They can , but most don't, simply because it's not worth the effort and expense.

From personal experience as a DBA: the effort usually consists of not deleting rows out of the database. The expense is a few cents a month for gigabytes of data.

Worst case scenario, the companies will simply set up a separate data warehouse style data store, and make it available to anyone who wants it internally. If we as consumers are lucky, they will scrub the data of PII before moving it to the data warehouse.

Re: A demonstration of browser events used to monitor online behaviour

#105

Post by spuz »

ryan-c wrote: post #91

I got "Subject has run script to click on the button 10 times in one second" by using xdotool click --delay 10 --repeat 100 1, wonder whether that's checking timing or just assuming nobody clicks that fast.

I got a legitimate "Subject clicked button 10 times in one second". I didn't use a script so I assume that it either is able to detect the source of the event, or it checks to make sure the time between clicks is not fixed.

Re: A demonstration of browser events used to monitor online behaviour

#108

Post by LeifCarrotson »

dx034 wrote: post #73
danfromberlin wrote: post #34

Who else feels a sense of horrible dread and frustration that every minutiae of my (and your) online activity is recorded for eternity and exploited to the fullest extent? What are you going to do about it?

Not really horrified. Yes they save it, but they don't seem to be able to use it well. The ads I get on Facebook are sometimes really interesting (i.e. targeted well), on other pages it's mostly stuff I bought a while ago or topics where I don't even have a clue why they think that could be interesting. And even though they can save it forever, it's outdated pretty quickly. If someone has information that I clicked a…

But the goal of that optimization is not to make your life better, it's to make money for them.

They may be pretty bad at it now, but one thing about technology is that it gets better and better, and their goal is to encourage consumption of their product.

I'm thinking about buying a new laptop right now. I'm trying to make a smart choice, weighing the funds I have available, my need for it, the options available, my preferences for various brands and features, and my own desire to have new shiny stuff.

The advertisers can distort this rational decision. Right now they just have a poorly-targeted generic bit of text that I don't really read in the sidebar of certain websites, and I feel comfortable with this level of influence. If they were super-persuasive at selling their product to me Present Me would consider that theft. Future Me would probably be grateful to the advertiser, and that's terrifying.

A Self-Driving, Self-Selling Tesla might show up at my door, perform an inspection of my current car, and, in its silky voice, deliver an irrefutable argument why I must never get in that car again and should instead hop in for a free ride across state lines so I can take out a home equity loan and cash in my 401k to buy it. Yikes!

The optimistic side of this is that maybe they'll eventually move beyond market research and on to individual research to give us stuff that we actually want. "Oh, LeifCarrotson is filtering out our 1366x768 TN panels, doesn't seem to care about thickness, has recently read about the Samsung 960 Pro? Let's build him one with a big 9-cell battery and longer travel keyboard, a good screen, and one of those SSDs. And he seems to be running Linux? Let's swap our default touchpad for one with an open driver, and donate a few percent of the profits to the EFF, that's sure to make him happy."

Re: A demonstration of browser events used to monitor online behaviour

#110

Post by truth_sentinell »

tyfon wrote: post #94
truth_sentinell wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really can't understand the people that browse the internet without JS. Like what's the point? JS is part of the web, deal with it.

I am dealing with it by not visiting homepages that rely on JavaScript. The point is I do not want a bunch of insecure code running on my computer just to read some text, which is what I usually do in a browser.

Maybe all you visit is blogs. But there are lots of websites that rely on JS in order to express their intentions. It's like watching a movie with the mute on because the english accents bothers you -and without the possibility of subtitles-.
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