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Why the World Needs WikiLeaks

nytimes.com

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Re: Why the World Needs WikiLeaks

#111

Post by xnull2guest »

generic_user wrote: post #75
hackuser wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not true; it's a wild exaggeration, part of the misinformation campaign. Whatever we may think politically, we all can agree that we don't need more of that!

Its a very serious intrusion that was denounced by the by American Archbishop Joseph E. Kurtz and others. The front organisations are real and the intent of starting a 'Catholic Spring' was descussed by Podesta and other high ranking DNC officials.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/6293

It's pretty incredible how casually members of the US government and party officials invoke the concept of galvanizing revolutionary movements.

There's a concept within the US government that "it's better to convince than to conquer" but there's been a growing awareness and resistance to the emotional abuse that comes from the exhausting onslaught of ideological infiltration and astroturfed revolutionary appeal.

Re: Why the World Needs WikiLeaks

#112

Post by [deleted] »

xnull2guest wrote: post #102
dsharlet wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I disagree with you about the DNC emails, they go above and beyond preference into outright campaign strategy coordination and undermine the whole idea of the primary process. What exactly do you think the primaries are? They are not official elections. The democratic party (and the republican party) exist to help the candidates they want to support get elected. Note the mere existence of superdelegates. Primaries…

This is perfectly spot on. However, I'd argue that it took the DNC leaks for people en masse to understand this. People broadly thought that they had a legitimate say in the candidate promoted by the party affiliation. Today, people still haven't really figured out that there are very narrow ideological differences between the two parties that control the entire electoral process. It's very obvious, of course, but it…

[deleted]

Re: Why the World Needs WikiLeaks

#113

Post by xnull2guest »

hackuser wrote: post #52
sdegutis wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if this is the same group of emails you talked about, but at the very least they admitted to a conspiracy to try to incite a "revolution" within the Catholic Church using pseudo-Catholic lay organizations with morally progressive agendas. That doesn't seem like a small thing.

That is not true; it's a wild exaggeration, part of the misinformation campaign. Whatever we may think politically, we all can agree that we don't need more of that!

The email in question: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/6293

For those who don't know the term "Spring" means a fake, externally organized revolution that is seen as legitimate because it aggravates insiders to the cause.

Re: Why the World Needs WikiLeaks

#114

Post by ovibos »

mplewis wrote: post #8
ccvannorman wrote: post #3

It seems pretty obvious that WikiLeaks has been compromised - is anyone buying this defense? And more importantly, who/what will replace WikiLeaks?

Who will replace WikiLeaks? Any legitimate news organization that actually vets potentially harmful material before releasing it.

What makes you think wikileaks doesn't vet their information before they publish it?

Re: Why the World Needs WikiLeaks

#116

Post by rdtsc »

grandalf wrote: post #55
skywhopper wrote: post #12

Wikileaks has released some important things, but they should be embarrassed that they thought the personal emails of Hillary's campaign staff saying sometimes silly things to each other was at all newsworthy. It was sensational, sure, but it revealed nothing important or even interesting. Anyone who spends a moment considering the question would expect campaign operatives to gripe about their opponents in over the t…

> they should be embarrassed I think the people who wrote some of those horrible and immature emails should be embarrassed. Why must we respect authority figures when they (clearly) have not earned it. There were so many minor things in those emails that reveal just what kind of people seek power. Disgusting.

Yeah there was no big smoking gun, no lizard people, but there was a lot of shady deals. And most of all, I find interesting is, what wasn't there - not a lot of concern for regular people. Not a lot of "yeah we should figure out how to reach out to folks struggling with finding work, inner cities have more crime than expected we should find a way to help there.."

But there was a lot of "let's take this angle, let's paint Bernie as a atheist, they'll hate him then".

One illustrative example of the email about Theano and its relationship to the Clinton Foundation. Also apparently Chelsea started digging too much and at some point was under the illusion that the charity was just that, a charity. She had to be reminded how things really worked and such. And anyone who thinks Saudi Arabia is donating money to CF cure AIDS is deluded. And of course, it had to be followed through with threats to blackmail her: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/52046

Re: Why the World Needs WikiLeaks

#117

Post by wrongc0ntinent »

grandalf wrote: post #110
TAForObvReasons wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't remember anyone credible refuting and saying they didn't write it. The criticisms were generally of a different sort: editorializing in their selection of leaks. "selective omission", if you will. They have information about Trump but chose not to release it. According to Breitbart (so you know it's not from a "liberal media" source): http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/08/27/wikileaks-info-dona... > “We do…

> This is one example. In other cases, such as the Syria files, known-to-have-existed emails that involved Russia mysteriously weren't leaked and many people have speculated that stemmed from a pro-Russia bias. I thought of this, but certainly there would have been someone CC'ed on one of those emails who would have leaked it to prove WL was sitting on relevant emails. This didn't happen.

Mind explaining the logic?

Re: Why the World Needs WikiLeaks

#118

Post by alphonsegaston »

mc32 wrote: post #87
alphonsegaston wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're living in strange days, and it's only gonna get weirder. NPR aired a pull your punches interview with a white supremacist today, the New York Times is publishing doublespeak missives from what increasingly appears to be either the useful idiots or willing collaborators of Russian intelligence services. It's like Trump malware has turned the mainstream media into a spam-serving botnet for a league of fascists.

That NPR bit was to associate Trump's rise as a consequence of the alt-right and their (racist) view of America. It's not that they pulled punches, it's that they want to alarm non alt-rights to make it look like they are taking over the Republican party. If NRP were on the right, they'd get something along the lines of black-power revolution types up there and let them go off and make it look like all Dems are like…

I understand that this was their intent, but this in no way seemed to me be the effect (not to mention that this strategy has already proven entirely incapable of checking the rise of Trump). The strategy of the alt-right is to couch Neo-Nazi ideology with just enough politeness and intellectual poise as to entice "ordinary people" into their ranks, further normalizing their cause. If you're well-mannered accountant is commenting on Breitbart while you gather together your tax documents, how bad can they really be? Fascist groups know they need white collar members, because the thugs are the first things they have to sacrifice when they gain real political power (both to appease military and law enforcement institutions as well as to demonstrate that they've shed their brutish origins).

The only way to counter it is to give these guys enough rope to hang themselves, and then openly and clearly expose their intellectual dishonesty and historical record. This requires a far greater skill at interviewing and rhetoric than is on display anywhere at NPR. The harshest rebuff the interviewer gave Spencer was something along the lines of "but don't people of all races get along on the NYC subway?" Spencer walked away from that interview quite happy with the seeds he planted.

Re: Why the World Needs WikiLeaks

#119

Post by xnull2guest »

kinghajj wrote: post #115

Is this post being brigaded? Surprised it's fallen off the front page already.

Brigaded threads are the norm for the internet now. Governments around the world including the US and UK hire military contractors to brigade, trolls brigade, and motivated communities brigade.

It's sad, I agree.

Re: Why the World Needs WikiLeaks

#120

Post by xnull2guest »

ccvannorman wrote: post #3

It seems pretty obvious that WikiLeaks has been compromised - is anyone buying this defense? And more importantly, who/what will replace WikiLeaks?

Most likely an intelligence agency will replace it. There will probably be a battle for the credibility vacuum created. With high likelihood USG will be a contenter.
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