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Why the World Needs WikiLeaks

nytimes.com

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Re: Why the World Needs WikiLeaks

#91

Post by grandalf »

generic_user wrote: post #61
skywhopper wrote: post #12

Wikileaks has released some important things, but they should be embarrassed that they thought the personal emails of Hillary's campaign staff saying sometimes silly things to each other was at all newsworthy. It was sensational, sure, but it revealed nothing important or even interesting. Anyone who spends a moment considering the question would expect campaign operatives to gripe about their opponents in over the t…

Donna Brazile was booted from CNN for rigging the national debate. Multiple people had to resign from the DNC for sending political agitators to Trump rallies to provoke violent confrontations. Journalists across all of the mainstream media outlets were coordinating stories with the DNC and gave editorial control to the John Podesta. Those are some seriously disturbing and undemocratic acts that We should all be appa…

Exactly. These are truly disturbing things that I'm still processing and am deeply troubled by.

In my opinion, the worst is the deliberate undermining of the Democratic party by HRC's loyal henchpeople to help HRC win the primary unfairly.

How can someone who doesn't respect the idea of a fair party primary respect the idea of the rule of law in general?

Re: Why the World Needs WikiLeaks

#92

Post by grandalf »

revelation wrote: post #46
colordrops wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really bizarre how your comment has made it to the top of this thread, considering that it seems that the prevailing opinion here on HN is supportive of wikileaks. Your claim that the leaks are not newsworthy is absurd in the extreme, and your judgement is in question. There are hundreds of items of greater interest and importance in those mails than in a good portion of news stories published by most major news…

The sentiment seems to have switched ever since they released any democrats material. It's the result of the two party system, where "if this isn't helping my party it must be because you are against me" thinking trumps any logical thought. I don't care for either color of political party, so I can appreciate cryptographically authenticated information leaks for what they are.

> "if this isn't helping my party it must be because you are against me" thinking trumps any logical thought.

Well put. Seemingly party loyalists are so blind to the idea that someone could actually care about principles (like transparency) that everything is a sinister plot against their faultless leader.

Re: Why the World Needs WikiLeaks

#93

Post by monsterix »

forrestbrazeal wrote: post #4

"Some have accused us of being pawns of the Russian government, but this misrepresents our principles and basic operations. ...We prefer not to know who our sources are; we do not want to.." So they prefer to be unwitting pawns? Transparency is great, freedom of information is great, but is there some point at which you have to step back and acknowledge that you're being used by a foreign power? Doesn't that undermin…

> to step back and acknowledge that you're being used by a foreign power?

No.

It is for people of America to acknowledge the wrongdoings of its Government and defend itself from internalizing that such overreaches from USG are unstoppable. Starting from inhuman torture of Chelsea Manning to outrageous house arrest (and cut-off) of Julian Assange in another country to landing a plane of another country's leader to capture Edward Snowden on basis of a "rumor" to millions of innocents put behind bars for life for petty or no crimes at all to meaningless killings of unarmed black people to pushing hackers to committing suicide (Aaron Schwartz) for no rhyme or reason.

Clearing you're doing a disservice to this nation by moving the real elephant out of the room.

Re: Why the World Needs WikiLeaks

#94

Post by grandalf »

badminton1 wrote: post #89

How do you validate a leak? What if it's 90% true except for the part that matters? The true strategists convince the enemy they're getting what they want, and then profit from it. If wikileaks was real they would be targeted by state sponsored hackers regularly. There's a strong possibility this is a facade.

Most of the tens of thousands of emails were cryptographically verified as authentic by DKIM headers.

Re: Why the World Needs WikiLeaks

#95

Post by rdtsc »

I think out of all the "news" media so far Wikileaks is probably the most trustworthy.

I've seen people claim they altered the emails or Russians wrote the emails, I think they'd have to point to specific instances for me to see it. I don't remember a single instance of them altering an email. I don't remember anyone credible refuting and saying they didn't write it.

How do we know these emails are interesting and useful -- we listen to the CNN of course, remember folks "...it is illegal to possess these stolen documents. It is different from the media. So everything you learn about this, you are learning from us." that was my first hint documents should be read very closely.

When mass media lies about something it overcompensates, and one heuristic I use is I just reverse the meaning of it. "don't read the documents" and I interpret it as "that's a place to take a look", or "we are exporting democracy to the Middle East" that means "we are installing puppet regimes there" and so on. It is a funny exercise.

Re: Why the World Needs WikiLeaks

#96

Post by xnull2guest »

saboot wrote: post #14

I'm not really sure what high and mighty role wikileaks can claim. Most major journalism outlets have ways for submitting information online anonymously. With their editorial standards they can avoid many of the (in some cases deadly) mistakes wikileaks has done by publishing blindly.

The American media hasn't avoided the deadly mistake of propagandizing the American public on the behalf of the US government into the Iraq war, for instance, and it has fed Americans a steady died of thinly veiled nationalism and imperialism with selective stories and whitewashing of American accountability for my entire adult life.

Or - take the recent National Security Advisor's own bragging about making the US media into an echo chamber of support for controversial policies.

Having myself submitted articles to major US news media syndicates, I can only express my frustration with their editorializing - as it consistently and repeatedly has rewritten very specifically chosen words into weasel words and apologisms, changing the meaning and implications of my articles. The worst part is that the editorializing (and choosing of misleading headlines) often actually makes the article read more clearly.

Given the huge role of former propaganda directors and national security administrators in high levels of the US press today along with a very dependent relationship on the US government for access, stories and purchases - it's not at all surprising that the media functions in this manner. But that doesn't prevent it from being frustrating, or the US media from making 'deadly' mistakes.

Re: Why the World Needs WikiLeaks

#97

Post by mattnewton »

dsharlet wrote: post #86
mattnewton wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with you about the DNC emails, they go above and beyond preference into outright campaign strategy coordination and undermine the whole idea of the primary process. I think if they could have had and released the emails sooner the behavior could have been addressed and that would have been a service to Democrats and the public. It's awful medicine sure, but something has to wake the patient up. I have not…

> I disagree with you about the DNC emails, they go above and beyond preference into outright campaign strategy coordination and undermine the whole idea of the primary process. What exactly do you think the primaries are? They are not official elections. The democratic party (and the republican party) exist to help the candidates they want to support get elected. Note the mere existence of superdelegates. Primaries…

I understand how the DNC has been in the past but that doesn't tell us how it should be in the future.

Primaries are supposed to generate winning candidates, not lend support to people because of their longtime service to the party. Maybe you disagree, but I bet the majority of democrats do not.

The vote matters because it is like a massive poll of who will energize the base the most. And the emails show the methodologies used weren't good. If we care about getting democratic candidates in the White House, we should care about fixing those methodologies.

Re: Why the World Needs WikiLeaks

#98

Post by krenoten »

locusm wrote: post #65
forrestbrazeal wrote: post #4

"Some have accused us of being pawns of the Russian government, but this misrepresents our principles and basic operations. ...We prefer not to know who our sources are; we do not want to.." So they prefer to be unwitting pawns? Transparency is great, freedom of information is great, but is there some point at which you have to step back and acknowledge that you're being used by a foreign power? Doesn't that undermin…

Have we seen a single shred of evidence of Russian involvement? Military types with a chest of medals saying so on CNN doesn't count btw.

https://medium.com/@thegrugq/evidence-guccifer-2-0-is-russia...

Re: Why the World Needs WikiLeaks

#99

Post by monsterix »

admax88q wrote: post #35
saboot wrote: post #14

I'm not really sure what high and mighty role wikileaks can claim. Most major journalism outlets have ways for submitting information online anonymously. With their editorial standards they can avoid many of the (in some cases deadly) mistakes wikileaks has done by publishing blindly.

> (in some cases deadly) Prove it. I have never seen any credible claim that wikileaks has had deadly mistakes.

He can't. Therefore, blame and run. And at the same time people like him with powers use their overreach to arrest and torture an individual without charges. Lame.

Re: Why the World Needs WikiLeaks

#100

Post by rdtsc »

crystaln wrote: post #11

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wikileaks released information the timing of which was clearly meant to influence the US elections in a very particular way. Secondly, Assange issued statements clearly indicating his intentions to harm Clinton, not promote transparency. Why would the NYT publish this obvious garbage without counterpoint?

> US elections in a very particular way.

Half the country thinks it is a in good way, half in a bad way. There is nothing to worry thought, Clinton had about 3 or 4 world class new agencies with 24/7 support for her. What's a few emails here and there...

> Why would the NYT publish this obvious garbage without counterpoint?

So it doesn't agree with your view point so it is garbage and needs a counterpoint.

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