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The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

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Re: The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

#131
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux desktop is getting better but is still a painful experience when used with non common setup. Indeed every time I think of getting a new laptop or desktop, I try to do research into how well Linux will run on the hardware. Thankfully there seem to be a decent number of laptops that have Linux preinstalled now. As much as I enjoy tinkering, even after using Linux for a while I still don't have a strong understa…

I had the same opinion of Linux as you. I didn't want to tinker with it and get everything working well. Just install Ubuntu. Ignore everyone saying Ubuntu is a kiddy OS ("All you need is X, Y, Z-ix"). Ubuntu is Linux Windows (not really, but it is pretty hard to mess up).

Linux Mint rocks for ease of setup and use.

Re: The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

#132
post #2

I do not subscribe to the idea that it is a good thing to switch from one DE to another for specific tasks. I think it is better to learn one, master it and stick to it. Otherwise time that should be spent working is spent on tinkering with the DE.

Well the idea is supposedly that if you get your DE/WM just the way you want it, you can be more productive. Various people have a love for tiling WMs because they can navigate and organize things with the keyboard.

I do use a tiling manager on my linux laptop, but this is mostly because on a 13" screen every pixel counts. Also, the trackpad is really not good.

Nothing wrong with trying several environments until you find one which is the right one for you. But, hopping from one to another, like the article suggests, seems counterproductive to me.

Re: The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

#133

I remember when I discovered Unix as a college freshman (HP-UX with CDE), I spent way too much time fiddling with the desktop settings. For a while I even ran a buggy Enlightenment because wow was it pretty. I loved trying out new visual styles. I spent so much time on wallpapers. It took me years before I realized that what I really wanted to optimize was app layout. Any screen space that wasn't used by an app was w…

I'm in the same boat, I used AwesomeWM for several years, before switching to OSX around 2010, just because the Mac hardware was superior to just about everything else, but I always felt crippled in the window manager. iTerm2 + tmux can get close, but switching to the browser never "fit" in that flow. A few weeks ago I switched back to Linux on a NUC, and its like I've come home again.

Which NUC? I've been eyeing one for a while, and am always looking for recommendations :)

Re: The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

#134
post #130
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most importantly, a stable API which can be concurrently used by multiple processes. Getting/setting single values in a plain text config file is cumbersome and error-prone, and even if there's a library which is able to read that particular format, it often clobbers comments and formatting. For systems administration, you usually solve this by generating the entire config file from a template since nothing on the se…

> However, on the desktop, many different application want to read and write keys. Tray applets, the system config panel, even your media player... If your applications directly read and store configuration keys belonging to other applications, you have way worse problems in your architecture than configuration file format.

Configuration items like current theme or current default font are things, that all applications are interested in. If they want to have look and feel like the rest of the desktop, that is.

Re: The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

#135
This year my MacbookPro died (battery exploded). Since I was frustrated with Apple's lack of support for this extreme case and the fact that the new models can't be repaired, I bought an Asus UX305LA and loaded Ubuntu onto it.

I have used Ubuntu at work for a few years but this was the first time I went with Linux at home.

For the most part, I love it! The whole OS seems to be really light on resources and the UI is pretty nice these days. It also passes a critical test, which is when I hand my laptop to a non-technical friend they don't even notice it's running anything uncommon. Chrome is Chrome I guess :-)

One thing that kills me is the fact that Linux is basically left in the dust when it comes to media on the web. I can't watch HBO Go, installing Flash player requires a PhD, and many websites just tell you to go away for using an "unsupported operating system".

Re: The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

#136
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux desktop is getting better but is still a painful experience when used with non common setup. Indeed every time I think of getting a new laptop or desktop, I try to do research into how well Linux will run on the hardware. Thankfully there seem to be a decent number of laptops that have Linux preinstalled now. As much as I enjoy tinkering, even after using Linux for a while I still don't have a strong understa…

> Perhaps I need to dedicate more time to understanding how things work? Yes, if you don't already, learn basic command line very well, with stderr/stdin/stdout, pipes, sed, grep, find, cat, make, etc. etc. You'll then thrive in Linux, and it will help you with OSX, too.

Oh I already know how to use (most of) those things. What I meant was more that if something on my machine is not working, like a driver or something, I usually have to resort to just copy pasting whatever people tell me to do.

I guess what I meant was more that I don't understand how Linux the OS works, not how to work in Linux?

Re: The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

#137

Edit: Can the downvoter explain their reason? My personal favorite is the LXDE / Lubuntu 16.04 setup. All my subjective opinion, of course: - Sits in the sweet spot for bare bones distro vs batteries included. - Without decorations, I have essentially borderless applications, that I can quickly toggle the titlebars etc. - Kept sane keyboard shortcuts and did not remove them for some arbitrary reasons. Here's a random…

Only thing I dislike about Lubuntu is losing Mac keyboard shortcuts and hardware, a lot of them I managed to replicate and even found a (slightly unstable) Alfred alternative called Albert [1]. My Magic Mouse 2 could only work like a dumb mouse. I turned off the tray at the bottom, the window borders and set apps to start full screen, switching between full screen apps was much nicer than what remains after Apple clo…

I haven't used Alfred but I think you might find rofi[0] interesting.

[0] https://davedavenport.github.io/rofi/

Re: The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

#138

I recently tried to use Linux (Ubuntu 16.10) as my primary desktop and failed again. I tried yearly since year 2000. But again in late 2016 I switched back to Windows (10) and MacOs. Driver support is getting better but so are my expectations and Linux (well Ubuntu) doesn't seem to catch up fast enough. For instance I failed having my dual graphic cards be used in extended mode with the my native laptop screen and an…

I actually have the opposite problem. Everything I own and do is terrible on Windows and works fine on Ubuntu. There is some weird finnicky things with Bluetooth headphones (especially headsets) but it is honestly such an easy fix (plug them in) that I don't even think about it. Windows on the other refuses to connect at all to my Bluetooth headphones (Sony), my graphics card has broken drivers (and continues to) and…

I always struggle with Windows updates, it's not on automatic update and it seems that after Win 10 shenanigans Microsoft is making it harder and harder top keep Windows machine updated. First it seeks for updates without finding anything, then after restart it says there are updates but by that time I have work to do and can't be interrupted with updates. Essentially, the solution is to shut it down and return to Linux machine.

Re: The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

#139

I recently tried to use Linux (Ubuntu 16.10) as my primary desktop and failed again. I tried yearly since year 2000. But again in late 2016 I switched back to Windows (10) and MacOs. Driver support is getting better but so are my expectations and Linux (well Ubuntu) doesn't seem to catch up fast enough. For instance I failed having my dual graphic cards be used in extended mode with the my native laptop screen and an…

Today I found out that my brand new Macbook Pro (company provided) does not actually go to sleep when I close the lid. Every 30 minutes or so, it wakes up, builds up a wifi connection and starts doing something. Even though the 'powernap' feature is turned off. I find that sort of behaviour far more worrisome than a bluetooth headset not working.

> Every 30 minutes or so, it wakes up, builds up a wifi connection and starts doing something.

Have you tried to intercept the traffic?

Re: The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

#140
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the worst. I've sufferred so much although I never wanted to care about it. I'm a little blurry on the details, but if you want to automize addition of some configuration to the dconf system you have to put your part of the configuration tree in /etc/ and recompile the whole config to a new binary file. I doubt anybody can measure the parsing advantage of a binary format, but the drawbacks are obvious. You can't…

> automize addition of some configuration to the dconf system You mean like "dconf dump" and "dconf load"? I use it for exactly that (importing my hotkeys config). What you describe (compiled files in /etc) are system-global default values. You only need those for multi-user environments. > I doubt anybody can measure the parsing advantage of a binary format, but the drawbacks are The performance advantages are massi…

> What you describe (compiled files in /etc) are system-global default values. You only need those for multi-user environments.

Well, I work as a systems administrator...

>> I doubt anybody can measure the parsing advantage of a binary format, but the drawbacks are

> The performance advantages are massive.

The advantages over reading a big unsorted chunk of text, maybe measurable in an isolated benchmark - depending on the size of the text. But it's not a good idea to put everything in one place.

With the conventional one-file-per program approach the existing file system (instead of custom binary datastructures) is used to speed up the access.

> The dconf database is just a hashtable which can be directly mmap'ed, so no parsing happens at all.

As an aside, mmap is not necessarily faster, or may even be slower. It's probably not worth bothering except in extreme cases. What matters is caching.

"No parsing happens at all", hardly. A hash table just leads to the information. You still have to interpret it. And I assume dconf can only be queried over dbus? This would mean serialization, deserialization, and lots of context switches.

> This does matter for settings which are read hundreds of times (your current desktop theme, for example).

Not convinced. If most keys were read many times, something was very wrong. No. Most things are read by exactly one program.

The pure act of reading config files is neglibible compared to what other things happen at start-up. A process spawn costs about 1ms. Loading the program code itself is a hell of a lot more expensive than loading a tiny text configuration file. There simply is no performance gain coming from putting everything on one crap pile. But it has serious practical disadvantages.

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