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Global warming: The state of the climate in 2016

economist.com

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Re: Global warming: The state of the climate in 2016

#21

Post by hayavuk »

strictnein wrote: post #8
papercrane wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is convinced.[1] The American public is convinced, although not as much as they probably should be.[2][3][4] The problem here is to convince world leaders to actually do something. [1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-16/china-tell... [2] http://climatepublicopinion.stanford.edu/sample-page/opinion... [3] https://environment.yale.edu/poe/v2014/ [4] http://www.gallup.com/poll/190010/concern-global-…

China is convinced? Then China should tell China to stop building coal power plants. They burn slightly more coal than the rest of the world combined. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/26/business/energy-environmen...

China also has a sizable population to match.

Re: Global warming: The state of the climate in 2016

#22

Post by malnourish »

brian-armstrong wrote: post #7
buckbova wrote: post #2

> According to research published last year, spending a day in Beijing is currently akin to smoking almost 40 cigarettes. Decoupling emissions from economic growth thus helps both people and planet. Convincing Mr Trump of this fact is now an urgent and daunting challenge. How is convincing Trump here the answer? Isn't convincing China more important? How about convincing the American people? Do this and politicians w…

We (the US) are in a good position to lead the renewables industry, and part of that is dogfooding what we make. But that dogfooding is harder if our domestic nonrenewable prices are low. Yes that means that, for now, those products aren't fully competitive. But they could get there with scale, and we get that scale by rolling them out domestically. It helps us build this industry in the long term. China is also jump…

This is exactly what I think we should be doing (as a nation). We should be pushing innovation and becoming a leader in R&D for green energy. It seems like a fantastic way of creating jobs and I have a hard time comprehending why people are so resistant to it.

Re: Global warming: The state of the climate in 2016

#23

Post by melling »

nyolfen wrote: post #18
strictnein wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> are pushing harder than anyone to get away from dirty power. Where do you gather that from? They use more coal than the entirety of the rest of the world combined. Their coal usage has more than doubled over the past ~15 years. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/26/business/energy-environmen...

china's coal use peaked by 2014: http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/press/releases/20...

According to that article: "China’s coal consumption growth was responsible for more than half of global CO2 emission growth in the past 10 years."

China gets over 70% of its electricity from coal. Yes, they are building more solar but it'll take over a decade for there to be significant change.

Anyway, the real problem is that even if everyone somehow meets the Paris limits, it's not enough.

https://www.beforetheflood.com/

Re: Global warming: The state of the climate in 2016

#24

Post by andrei_says_ »

brian-armstrong wrote: post #7
buckbova wrote: post #2

> According to research published last year, spending a day in Beijing is currently akin to smoking almost 40 cigarettes. Decoupling emissions from economic growth thus helps both people and planet. Convincing Mr Trump of this fact is now an urgent and daunting challenge. How is convincing Trump here the answer? Isn't convincing China more important? How about convincing the American people? Do this and politicians w…

We (the US) are in a good position to lead the renewables industry, and part of that is dogfooding what we make. But that dogfooding is harder if our domestic nonrenewable prices are low. Yes that means that, for now, those products aren't fully competitive. But they could get there with scale, and we get that scale by rolling them out domestically. It helps us build this industry in the long term. China is also jump…

I tend to believe that if we stop subsidies for dirty energy sources, the market will take care of the rest.

So it comes down to policy.

Re: Global warming: The state of the climate in 2016

#25

Post by Shivetya »

jamesblonde wrote: post #3

The canary in the coalmine for global warming is Arctic sea ice. It is melting at an alarming rate, and we can expect an ice-free (>1m sq km of sea ice) Arctic in the summer within a decade or two (or 3-4 years if recent trends continue!). There's a small active community who follow this. We tend to hang out here - a HN level of polite discussion goes on: http://neven1.typepad.com/

well fortunately the Antarctic is gaining mass, so things happen. We are still only 12k years out an ice age and learning as we go. Natural variability is quite boring so it doesn't make headlines as much as it should.

the real reality is that the Paris agreement is a horrid piece of do nothing legislation that lets the major developing powers do what they want all the while getting the nod of acceptance from the UN because of the hundred billion dollar payout. Basically we have what is a one time voluntary agreement to pay out to certain groups so that developing countries can continue to pollute provided they plan to eventually slow it

Re: Global warming: The state of the climate in 2016

#26

Post by brian-armstrong »

malnourish wrote: post #22
brian-armstrong wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We (the US) are in a good position to lead the renewables industry, and part of that is dogfooding what we make. But that dogfooding is harder if our domestic nonrenewable prices are low. Yes that means that, for now, those products aren't fully competitive. But they could get there with scale, and we get that scale by rolling them out domestically. It helps us build this industry in the long term. China is also jump…

This is exactly what I think we should be doing (as a nation). We should be pushing innovation and becoming a leader in R&D for green energy. It seems like a fantastic way of creating jobs and I have a hard time comprehending why people are so resistant to it.

I hate to beat this drum, but it comes down to money. Oil and coal spend so much money spreading false information about the issues, so it's hard for people to be informed about what our options actually are.

Re: Global warming: The state of the climate in 2016

#27

Post by joering2 »

clumsysmurf wrote: post #15

"Convincing Mr Trump of this fact is now an urgent and daunting challenge." By appointing Myron Ebell to lead the transition at the EPA, Mr Trump has made it clear he's made up his mind. Personnel is policy.

For those who want to ask obvious follow up question, based on Wikipedia article on Mr. Ebell:

Through CEI, Ebell has stated his belief that global warming is a hoax, that most of the data predicting climate change is false, and that the scientific consensus was "phony".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myron_Ebell

Re: Global warming: The state of the climate in 2016

#28

Post by blondie9x »

clumsysmurf wrote: post #15

"Convincing Mr Trump of this fact is now an urgent and daunting challenge." By appointing Myron Ebell to lead the transition at the EPA, Mr Trump has made it clear he's made up his mind. Personnel is policy.

It's too bad Americans cannot vote for some of the most prominent cabinet members the way they vote for President/Vice-President. Many of these appointees will have a more direct impact on people's lives but yet they have no say in who will represent them. Democracy?

Re: Global warming: The state of the climate in 2016

#29

Post by Silfen »

mugdho wrote: post #19
yellow_postit wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of captivity, where would it be safe for arctic animals?

Probably nowhere. But the alternative to captivity is that we will just see entire species of animals go extinct.

We have already seen many, many species go extinct. The exact figures are not well understood, but there's a lot more at stake than just the polar bear. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

Re: Global warming: The state of the climate in 2016

#30

Post by kristopolous »

papercrane wrote: post #5
buckbova wrote: post #2

> According to research published last year, spending a day in Beijing is currently akin to smoking almost 40 cigarettes. Decoupling emissions from economic growth thus helps both people and planet. Convincing Mr Trump of this fact is now an urgent and daunting challenge. How is convincing Trump here the answer? Isn't convincing China more important? How about convincing the American people? Do this and politicians w…

China is convinced.[1] The American public is convinced, although not as much as they probably should be.[2][3][4] The problem here is to convince world leaders to actually do something. [1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-16/china-tell... [2] http://climatepublicopinion.stanford.edu/sample-page/opinion... [3] https://environment.yale.edu/poe/v2014/ [4] http://www.gallup.com/poll/190010/concern-global-…

Biggest problem is that climate change aggressively challenges many foundations of capitalism and consumerism.

That's a religion to some people. And this is akin to changing it.

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