The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments • Hacker News Board

Re: The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

#71

Post by mverwijs » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 8:20 PM UTC

rootbear wrote: post #10

In the environment I'm in, my Linux home directory is shared by multiple systems. Most are CentOS 6, but we're starting to use CentOS 7, too. I'm using the default Gnome 2 Desktop on 6, but Mate Desktop on 7, as I don't like Gnome 3 or the "Classic" option. I can't point to any specifics at the moment, but I've had what I think are issues of these desktops stepping on each other. Being able to switch between DEs is n…

If in this case you've a /home that is an NFS mount shared across several nodes running different *nix or even Linux distros then yes, that is a problem.

Centos6 will have different Gnome versions than Centos7. However, both will write in ~/.gnome, possibly .gtk, or .gtk-3.0 or wherever the hell they write to these days.

Better to share your data through an nfs share in /data instead of /home and take the pain of not having the exact Desktop across different nodes. Or to create a homogenous environment with only Centos7 for example.

Re: The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

#72

Post by fapjacks » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 8:21 PM UTC

robmccoll wrote: post #49

awalGarg wrote: post #13

One not-so-unrelated thing I really love about linux is that the "configuration" for just about every application is stored in plain-text files, mostly in the user's home directory. Which means we can use git to version control them (like many many people do - the dotfiles trend). You can have a log of configuration changes for your system, you can have various profiles with branches, etc. Want to switch to a differe…

It's unfortunate that many of the modern components frequently seen in Linux environments do not appreciate/respect/promote the use of plain-text files and scripts. Thinking of systemd and its many utilities, Docker, etc.

Can you please explain what you mean with respect to Docker? I've been using it (and the other software in its ecosystem) for three years and have never run into files and scripts that were not plaintext. Even image layers are just tarballs of files and metadata.

Re: The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

#73

Post by juliangoldsmith » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 8:23 PM UTC

robmccoll wrote: post #60

lima wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> systemd Isn't systemd's configuration entirely plain text?

Some of the configuration is plain text: unit, service, and environment files are plaintext. Which services are enabled and disabled cannot be controlled through file manipulation that I know of. Journal (log files) are binary. I think what bothers me about both is that the presence of text files in a predefined location is not enough to make things happen on its own. Instead of the simplest possible everything-is-a-…

IIRC enabling and disabling services in systemd are done via symlinks. You'd have to call a binary to start newly-added services, though. (i.e. systemctl daemon-reload && systemctl start service)

Re: The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

#74

Post by fapjacks » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 8:24 PM UTC

sandGorgon wrote: post #68

Ubuntu has turned into this franken-beast that is simply not cutting it for me anymore. Right from the installer (that doesn't work well on XPS 13 with name) to Unity to Mir. Fedora 24 has been brilliant and works awesome out of the box. I am constantly recommending F24 to people and have never had a bad experience.

If you don't like the installer, Unity, or Mir, just go download Linux Mint with Cinnamon and be done with it.

Re: The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

#75

Post by okramcivokram » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 8:25 PM UTC

willtim wrote: post #65

lima wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gnome re-created the registry because they needed features that plain text files don't have. I simply have a hook for my dotfile repo which calls "dconf dump / > .dconf". This dumps the entire tree and it's nicely versioned in the repo.

The issue for me is more that they recreated the windows registry with all its flaws. For example, when uninstalling an app, can every entry associated with that app be easily removed?

If app is removed, are all the relevant dotfiles removed?

Re: The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

#76

Post by willtim » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 8:25 PM UTC

sandGorgon wrote: post #68

Ubuntu has turned into this franken-beast that is simply not cutting it for me anymore. Right from the installer (that doesn't work well on XPS 13 with name) to Unity to Mir. Fedora 24 has been brilliant and works awesome out of the box. I am constantly recommending F24 to people and have never had a bad experience.

Ubuntu are playing a (very long) game. If they manage it, IMHO they'll be in a better place than Fedora's UI which is built on a stack that increasingly only Redhat will continue to develop.

Re: The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

#77

Post by edbrown23 » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 8:26 PM UTC

robmccoll wrote: post #60

lima wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> systemd Isn't systemd's configuration entirely plain text?

Some of the configuration is plain text: unit, service, and environment files are plaintext. Which services are enabled and disabled cannot be controlled through file manipulation that I know of. Journal (log files) are binary. I think what bothers me about both is that the presence of text files in a predefined location is not enough to make things happen on its own. Instead of the simplest possible everything-is-a-…

Generally systemd manages enabled/disabled services through symlinks in /etc/ (/etc/systemd/system/ on my Fedora 24, for instance), which you can add/delete in the shell if you want to. It's admittedly not plain-text, but manipulation-wise it's about equal.

Re: The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

#78

Post by digi_owl » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 8:26 PM UTC

willtim wrote: post #63

digi_owl wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For every person loving those plain texts, there are one that want to see them purged from existence. Observe how Gnome has basically recreated the registry, complete with hidden magic switches...

The Gnome stack is horrible. I long ago started questioning the sanity of the devs when they tried to build an entire office suite in C. Start any Gnome/GTK app and it will continously spew assertion failed log messages at you. Gnome has also forced certain standards, e.g. Network Manager when superior alternatives exist (the excellent Connman).

I seem to recall that Connman came to be after Network Manager was established. And frankly i am unsure if it was Gnome or Red Hat that brought it on, but then i find the lines blur between the two (after all, it seems like the most active Gnome devs are on RH payroll).

Re: The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

#79

Post by pjmlp » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 8:28 PM UTC

willtim wrote: post #58

bengalister wrote: post #52

I recently tried to use Linux (Ubuntu 16.10) as my primary desktop and failed again. I tried yearly since year 2000. But again in late 2016 I switched back to Windows (10) and MacOs. Driver support is getting better but so are my expectations and Linux (well Ubuntu) doesn't seem to catch up fast enough. For instance I failed having my dual graphic cards be used in extended mode with the my native laptop screen and an…

My experiences are similar, it's not the software that's the biggest problem, I use mostly FOSS anyway. It was the lack of decent hardware support, e.g. Skylake laptop support, Displayport MST, that drove me to Windows 10.

What drove me back, already in Windows XP days, was that the UI/UX and gamer culture don't really get along with the FOSS ideals and using powerful gaming computers as a modern version of Sun 3/50 (where twm was created).

Re: The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments

#80

Post by TheCoelacanth » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 8:29 PM UTC

digi_owl wrote: post #42

awalGarg wrote: post #13

One not-so-unrelated thing I really love about linux is that the "configuration" for just about every application is stored in plain-text files, mostly in the user's home directory. Which means we can use git to version control them (like many many people do - the dotfiles trend). You can have a log of configuration changes for your system, you can have various profiles with branches, etc. Want to switch to a differe…

For every person loving those plain texts, there are one that want to see them purged from existence. Observe how Gnome has basically recreated the registry, complete with hidden magic switches...

That's XML, right? So still text, just structured text