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Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

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Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#411

Post by pron »

kofejnik wrote: post #407
pron wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure, but there's certainly plenty of evidence that they know a lot more about society than people who don't bother studying it at all.

astrologists and homeopaths would say that, as well

The difference is that believers in homeopathy don't employ anything resembling the scientific method, and there's plenty of evidence against its validity. Social researchers absolutely do use the scientific method, and you don't have any evidence against the validity of their results (obviously, some are wrong -- just as in medicine -- but the field as a whole is serious and as rigorous as possible).

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#412

Post by pron »

794CD01 wrote: post #393
pron wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're treating this as if blacks and whites are somehow symmetrical in the context of American society. No serious social scientist would treat the two expressed views as equivalent.

Which doesn't discredit the equivalence, it discredits social scientists, since any layman can look at the two statements and see that they are facially the same.

And the layman would be wrong, because to judge the significance of a statement -- in sociology as in math -- context is crucial.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#413

Post by jimmywanger »

sethrin wrote: post #396
jimmywanger wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no reason to compare these two things, and the worrying implication of your reasoning is that any injury to a minority can be absolved if the majority can be shown to have suffered some other harm. You are missing the main thrust of my argument. Transgender issues are such a vanishingly small portion of the population of course people who speak about the economy will get more traction. And people who fixat…

Let's be clear, the focus on transgender rights is a conservative one. Conservatives lost the fight on gay marriage and needed another moral crusade to rile up their base. So far it has been quite effective. Transgender persons are as you say, a tiny minority, and politically a nonentity. The status quo on bathroom laws was really just fine. Trans people are more worried about nomenclature and paying for therapy, and…

> The main thrust of your argument was that we must either talk about jobs or trans issues. This is a false dichotomy.

This is most certainly not a false dichotomy. Everybody has a certain amount of mind share that they command. If you're talking about Subject A you're not talking about Subject B.

That goes a long way to explaining again why liberals seem so out of touch with most working class folks living in middle america.

They don't care about what rights a tiny portion of Americans have, or what bathrooms they can and cannot use. They care about getting jobs and food and making rent, which are the concerns of a much greater proportion of the populations.

When they hear about politicians ramble on about things that only affect a tiny minority of people, while ignoring things that affect much more people in a larger way, then you have an out-of-touch political party.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#414

Post by 794CD01 »

pron wrote: post #412
794CD01 wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which doesn't discredit the equivalence, it discredits social scientists, since any layman can look at the two statements and see that they are facially the same.

And the layman would be wrong, because to judge the significance of a statement -- in sociology as in math -- context is crucial.

Right, but it doesn't matter whether their belief is right or not, what matters is that they believe it.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#415

Post by norea-armozel »

alistproducer2 wrote: post #113
leereeves wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the left seriously damaged their ability to fight racist ideas when they abandoned the idea of equality. Now, the left calls colorblindness and "all lives matter" racist. (Remember when Martin O'Malley was destroyed for saying that?) They create advantageous standards based on race, and even exclusive positions for non-white applicants. (For example, at the BBC.) And I too doubt they would object to "dedi…

HN is a bad place to discuss this sort of stuff because you're always risking karma, but here goes. As a liberal, I will say that liberals drastically overplayed their hand the last 8 years. Many of us have been saying for a while that the language, tenor, and actions of recent liberal movements was ultimately counter productive. I understand and share the demand to be treated decently and equally, but admittedly thi…

So, LGBT people and other minorities should just not be "uppity" when it comes to our civil rights? So we're just to sit there while rich city liberals get to decide which bills get passed and which don't? If you want to lose the next election worse than you did this time just keep doing that. And btw, Trump won because he lied to the Rust Belt voters that he'll bring back jobs that basically don't exist anymore. They'll be plenty mad by 2018 but if you keep playing this limousine liberal crap then expect them to be madder at you all.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#416

Post by norea-armozel »

throwanem wrote: post #199
alistproducer2 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I noticed that liberals had this similar authoritarianness IMO this is what distinguishes a traditional liberal from a a progressive. For me, a liberal is basically libertarian with a belief the state can be used to ensure the rights of citizens are administered evenly. IMO, if someone's actions aren't depriving another of life or liberty, the state doesn't have much standing in regulating that activity. Progressive…

> Gay people getting married deprives no one of anything. There's an opportunity cost. I expanded on that a few days ago, and rather than rehearse it again, I'll link the answer I gave to "What do anti-gay-marriage people gain?": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12933668

Your assertion that LGBT rights activists didn't come up with civil unions isn't backed in history. In fact during the time DOMA was proposed many activists supported civil unions as a compromise. It was the right wing that chose to oppose that as well as the ENDA bill even when transgender protections (for folks like me) were ejected from the bill. So, I suggest you correct your statements on that post to be historically accurate.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#417

Post by kofejnik »

pron wrote: post #411
kofejnik wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

astrologists and homeopaths would say that, as well

The difference is that believers in homeopathy don't employ anything resembling the scientific method, and there's plenty of evidence against its validity. Social researchers absolutely do use the scientific method, and you don't have any evidence against the validity of their results (obviously, some are wrong -- just as in medicine -- but the field as a whole is serious and as rigorous as possible).

Just as I was preparing to answer your comment about physicists, you edited it. But wow, is this really your argument - "disprove the results or they are considered valid"? Ever heard of Russel's teapot?

Using the method is nice, but let me know when they learn to reliably predict anything, such as election outcomes.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#418

Post by candu »

throwanem wrote: post #344
scott_s wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're saying you want to not allow X because of Y. When others point out that making Y the criteria allows disallows A, B and C, you argue those points away as not important; you still want to allow A, B and C. That's basically special pleading. My conclusion - and I assume the conclusion of the people arguing with you - is that Y can't be your real reason for disallowing X.

I'm arguing that this change to the status quo (ante), of heterosexual specificity in marriage, was not warranted. To support that argument, I'm explaining why that status quo has value which is reduced, rather than increased, by permitting marriage among homosexual couples as well. As I've tried, perhaps unsuccessfully, to point out, this isn't the same as arguing that permission to marry should be contingent upon p…

You're cherry-picking one of many possible arguments for the status quo, arguing that this argument should be considered in the particular case of same-sex marriage while ignoring other cases where it might also pertain, and then repeatedly moving the goalposts, but whatever.

You're also characterizing this as a "vast" change. What is the vast change here? From a logistical perspective, it doesn't exist: you pass a law allowing same-sex couples to do the exact same thing that opposite-sex couples can...and now they can go do so using exactly the same procedures as opposite-sex couples could before, and obtain thereby exactly the same benefits (tax advantages of joint filing status, visitation rights, and a host of other small preferential treatments given to married couples).

Speaking of those benefits: while they exist, it is categorically impossible to uphold equality of rights and opportunities while opposing same-sex marriage. The only to reconcile these two positions is to either a) pick one or b) redefine marriage such that it confers no civil benefits (which would indeed be a vast change).

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#419

Post by norea-armozel »

cft wrote: post #79

Regardless of the alt-right point of view, I can only hope that https://gab.ai takes off and does not get shut down or sabotaged. We need a neutral social media.

No thanks. I don't like gab either since they're basically a hive of crackpots. I've seen everything from the Illuminati to "cultural marxists" blamed for people being transgender. Sorry if I'm not keen to interact with those folks, but I don't think me being trans is a disease or a problem. If it's a problem for them then they can solve it by staying out of my way just as I've been staying out of theirs.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#420

Post by kofejnik »

pron wrote: post #388
xaa wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All you say is true, as I understand it, but there are two problems: First, social scientists are overwhelmingly liberal. Normally, I don't have a problem with an appeal to "academic circles" as I'm in them. But this is a legitimate reason, I think, for conservatives to be skeptical of the motivations and reasoning here in such a politically-fraught topic. Secondly, redefining words with existing meanings is a bad id…

> this is a legitimate reason, I think, for conservatives to be skeptical of the motivations and reasoning here in such a politically-fraught topic. It is a legitimate reason to be skeptical, but not a very interesting starting point for a discussion if one side isn't even interested in rigorously studying the subject at all. There's a vast knowledge gap between the two sides. > Secondly, redefining words with existi…

Calling something 'academic' and/or 'feminist' does not give it any additional validity

> trying to understand the more well-researched point of view

Sokal affair demonstrated full rigor of humanities 'research' quite well, I believe

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