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Re: undefined

#201

Post by SerLava »

csense wrote: post #197

I have zero sympathy for gambling addicts. They voluntarily choose to enter into unfavorable financial transactions (i.e. make -EV bets). As long as the casino's encouragements don't step over the line from aggressive marketing into fraud or coercion. Yes, they exploit human psychology to convince people to spend money, potentially large amounts of money, unwisely on something they don't actually need. That's the pur…

>That's the purpose of the entire field of marketing,

But then you went on to describe advertising.

Explain how the entire field of manufacturing is not to "create things people don't need"? Can you think of any counter examples?

What if someone markets or advertises this item?

Like, https://www.epipen.com/

Re: undefined

#202

Post by marklgr »

micaksica wrote: post #193
Tistel wrote: post #149

My first job out of Uni was making "games" for slot machines. My soul is forever damaged (not joking). I have horror stories over how much thought goes into the "design." In a given jurisdiction (State/Province/County) there will be rules about the payout percentage. Anywhere from 90 to 98%. So lets assume 95% percent payout. In the long run, you give me a dollar, I give you back $0.95. Most of the time its zero, som…

> The gambling industry is exploring the dimensions of the mind trying to find the optimal Skinner box to take all your money. They are exploiting a bug in our brains design. We evolved to run around the Savannah and throw things with weird accuracy. We just are not built to defend against it. They should be banned. So we should ban viral mechanics, those old Facebook games, dark UI/UX patterns, and pay-to-play mobil…

Those gambling machines are much closer to the shit the tobbaco industry has put on for decades, with all the chemical additives they included so as to maximize the addiction.

Re: undefined

#203

Post by fastbetshenry »

mikeash wrote: post #173
fastbetshenry wrote: post #160

Here is my proposal to eliminate problem gambling forever: scrap all laws restricting gambling. I know this might sound surprising (ok possibly crazy) but hear me on... Today it is extremely expensive to open a casino. I'm not sure what the laws for offline casino are, but license costs for a new online casino are 100s of 1000s to millions USD per year. Subsequently there are very few companies that compete in this s…

Are gambling addicts limited by time or by money? If they're limited by money then reducing the house edge just means they'll play more before going bust.

True. However reducing the house edge to 0 would mean that they can play until infinity without loosing money on average.

Re: undefined

#204

Post by oxide »

eric_h wrote: post #136
oxide wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

since recreational drugs make gambling that much more fun, you'd think casinos would be lobbying for legalization.

The legal drug that casino's peddle is very much the best drug to extract money from patrons. Weed does not reduce inhibitions in the same way that alcohol does, the only one I can think of that would help the casino's bottom line is cocaine.

you forgot meth. 12 hours of doing the same thing over and over with no regard to loss sounds like a meth addict to me.

Re: undefined

#205

Post by dlss »

trcollinson wrote: post #195
micaksica wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The gambling industry is exploring the dimensions of the mind trying to find the optimal Skinner box to take all your money. They are exploiting a bug in our brains design. We evolved to run around the Savannah and throw things with weird accuracy. We just are not built to defend against it. They should be banned. So we should ban viral mechanics, those old Facebook games, dark UI/UX patterns, and pay-to-play mobil…

Most of these questions are deeply philosophical and I have no answer for you. But I will ask you this: if giving up on gambling which you are not addicted to but find pleasurable saves a subset of the population that cannot control their own abuse of gambling, would you do it? In fact, to be a bit more specific, if you giving up gambling saved the next Scott Stevens and that persons family from the financial ruin an…

> if giving up on gambling which you are not addicted to but find pleasurable saves a subset of the population that cannot control their own abuse of gambling, would you do it?

This is a very interesting question, thanks for posting it. For me the answer is yes.

Another question: if someone who isn't addicted to gambling doesn't give up gambling to save those who are addicted, what punishment would you support the state imposing? (jail, fines, forced "treatment", etc)

And another: if someone who is addicted to gambling doesn't give up gambling, what punishment would you support the state imposing? (jail, fines, forced "treatment", etc)

I ask these questions because I don't think analogous ones were considered before launching the drug war. For me the answer to both is a whole-hearted "no punishment".

Re: undefined

#206

Post by Ntrails »

trcollinson wrote: post #195
micaksica wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The gambling industry is exploring the dimensions of the mind trying to find the optimal Skinner box to take all your money. They are exploiting a bug in our brains design. We evolved to run around the Savannah and throw things with weird accuracy. We just are not built to defend against it. They should be banned. So we should ban viral mechanics, those old Facebook games, dark UI/UX patterns, and pay-to-play mobil…

Most of these questions are deeply philosophical and I have no answer for you. But I will ask you this: if giving up on gambling which you are not addicted to but find pleasurable saves a subset of the population that cannot control their own abuse of gambling, would you do it? In fact, to be a bit more specific, if you giving up gambling saved the next Scott Stevens and that persons family from the financial ruin an…

>if giving up on gambling which you are not addicted to but find pleasurable saves a subset of the population that cannot control their own abuse of gambling, would you do it?

I like doing cocaine. The Government sees fit to make it illegal - despite the fact I'm a high functioning user. [hypothetical]

We already have plenty of examples where the government stops us doing stuff that might be fun "for our own good". I'm more on the fence about gambling than drugs - it seems like the start of a slippery slope that would negatively affect raiding guilds the world over...

Re: undefined

#207

Post by mikeash »

fastbetshenry wrote: post #203
mikeash wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are gambling addicts limited by time or by money? If they're limited by money then reducing the house edge just means they'll play more before going bust.

True. However reducing the house edge to 0 would mean that they can play until infinity without loosing money on average.

But then who would bother running a casino? You can maybe approach zero, but not achieve it.

Edit: also, I'm not sure if that's quite true. The possibility of going bust introduces an asymmetry that makes your long term expected value lower.

Re: undefined

#208

Post by bmj »

I highly recommend reading Matthew Crawford's The World Beyond Your Head. He spends a chapter examining how the casino industry games gamblers and addicts, and the sad effects that has on people.

Re: undefined

#209

Post by thefalcon »

eric_h wrote: post #129
pavel_lishin wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely don't understand the draw of slot machines. I watched a woman playing a smartphone version on the subway; for three stops, she just kept hitting the "spin" button and watching the results. I admit to not knowing how they work, but do they typically have any more interaction than "pull lever, sporadically receive reward"?

I agree, I am not drawn to slot machines, even though I do enjoy gambling (primarily table games like craps and blackjack). The people I know who do enjoy slot machines have all had a pretty decent (>$1k) hit on one, and that has, it seems, sunk the hook into them. I have played slots in the past when killing time in vegas (e.g. waiting for a flight), and I've always found that it's a really boring way to slowly spen…

I have many favorite anecdotes from "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman" (of course) but one that always sticks with me is this:

The first time I was in Las Vegas I sat down and figured out the odds for everything, and I discovered that the odds for the crap table were something like .493. If I bet a dollar, it would only cost me 1.4 cents. So I thought to myself, “Why am I so reluctant to bet? It hardly costs anything!”

So I started betting, and right away I lost five dollars in succession—one, two, three, four, five. I was supposed to be out only seven cents; instead, I was five dollars behind! I’ve never gambled since then (with my own money, that is). I’m very lucky that I started off losing.

Re: undefined

#210

Post by Bartweiss »

soVeryTired wrote: post #109
Bartweiss wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I doubt you'll make as much money as WoW, but you might make a lot more money per player-hour. Some of my happiest games spending has been for 'unjustifiably' short games, where no one ever makes me grind to the point of frustration, and I can just see some great content. The winners in my Steam library range from KSP to And then there's WoW. Which apparently passed 6 million man-hours played sometime back in 2…

That's six million man-years, no?

Oh good god, so it is. I think my brain tried to reduce the headline to something a bit less extreme...
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