Earlier quoted context omitted.
The point of the .Net foundation is that it isn't owned by Microsoft. I'm not convinced Microsoft is as lawsuit-happy as Oracle.
Currently not, but that can change with the next CEO.
It's a moot point anyway
Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen
301–310 of 341 posts
Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
Generally when referring to the JVM's performance people are talking about IBM J9, Azul Zing, HotSpot, etc, while Android has its own VM. Additionally, most high-performance JVMs are optimized for long-running server applications, wile the CLR is optimized more for desktop applications (considerably better startup time, is fast without requiring lots of warmup, but doesn't do some of the very advanced optimizations J…
HotSpot at least doesn't have terrible startup time. 50msec for Hello World and about 500msec to get a JavaFX window on the screen with a button in it. The .NET CLR isn't really "fast without requiring lots of warmup". It's a much simpler design that out of the box simply compiles each method the first time it's used. It doesn't "warm up" because it doesn't do profile guided or speculative optimisations at all. The w…
> With respect to memory usage I guess it's not much different.
Memory use is quite different due to reified generics and value types.
Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
The transition from Java to C# is pretty easy and pleasant as C# is similar but better.
> C# is similar but better Oh really? Why?
Better operators, properties, lambdas, a standard library that exploits lambdas pervasively, type inference, simple generators and async/await.
Java has anonymous classes and static interface members as the only real advantages over C#.
Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you change the return type of a method without using var you would still have the exact same problems. That's not an actual problem. I've used var since it came out years ago and never had this autocompletion problem you talk about. You sometimes had to explicitly declare a type in foreach loops, but that had more to do with shitty legacy APIs that used abstract classes as return types. Wasn't really var's fault t…
Consider the following scenario: You have a Toilet object with a method flush. var toilet = house.getToilet(); toilet.flush(); Now you find out that updating Toilet objects is somehow expensive and decide to wrap it into a Cache . Unfortunately, Cache also has a flush method, so there will be no compile time error, but functionality is broken now. I agree this problem would also occur when using chained calls (house.…
> Now you find out that updating Toilet objects is somehow expensive and decide to wrap it into a Cache. Unfortunately, Cache also has a flush method, so there will be no compile time error, but functionality is broken now.
This has happened to me exactly 0 times since type inference was introduced in 2007/2008.
Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
C# and java are very similar except C# has a bunch of extra features. Instead of creating anonymous classes and overriding methods you use event handlers. Plus you have linq,lambdas, operator overloading etc.
There’s also the Stream API and lambdas in Java. Operator overloading is probably the worst feature ever invented, same with Class Extensions, reducing readability of code. And with a switch to C# Google would neglect the Java ecosystem on Android, requiring us app devs to rewrite everything again. I’m not sure there’s an upside to switching to C#.
> Operator overloading is probably the worst feature ever invented
A seemingly common sentiment, but one rarely backed by any meaningful data.
Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
Imagine google buying MS. They seem more complimentary than competitive these days.
They are both around 500 billion of valuation. Impossible.
And MS has about $30B more cash on hand.
http://www.investors.com/news/technology/microsoft-alphabet-...
Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is my understanding Android simply uses the class library of OpenJDK. Android will continue to used the ART VM instead of the HotSpot VM.
True, but I personally believe this is the first step to adoption. The whole issue was around licensing..not because the Hotspot vm had something fundamentally missing (zygote and MVM notwithstanding)
That's hard to know and I have no insider knowledge.
From the outside it seems like a lot of work. Firstly HotStop is not optimized for fast startup, small footprint or short GC pauses. There is talk about merging the Java ME VMs but such things usually take years. Secondly Google built many proprietary extensions, eg DEX. I'm not sure that ART can even execute Java bytecodes.
Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
Generally when referring to the JVM's performance people are talking about IBM J9, Azul Zing, HotSpot, etc, while Android has its own VM. Additionally, most high-performance JVMs are optimized for long-running server applications, wile the CLR is optimized more for desktop applications (considerably better startup time, is fast without requiring lots of warmup, but doesn't do some of the very advanced optimizations J…
HotSpot at least doesn't have terrible startup time. 50msec for Hello World and about 500msec to get a JavaFX window on the screen with a button in it. The .NET CLR isn't really "fast without requiring lots of warmup". It's a much simpler design that out of the box simply compiles each method the first time it's used. It doesn't "warm up" because it doesn't do profile guided or speculative optimisations at all. The w…
Oh, I'm not saying JVMs can't work on tiny devices (heck, there are JVMs on everything from 2005 feature phones to Intel ME to some random tiny SuperH chip in a car), just that a high-performance JVM has so far not been designed for that particular use case.
Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's already there? The CLR is a well maintained and engineered system. Why do you believe otherwise?
At one time, the JVM had superior configurability - many more runtime options for aggressive garbage collection, profiling, optimization, and debugging. But maybe you're right - it's been a few years since I made a looked at the comparison.
The JVM is still a more performant VM. And it does still have a lot more options for varying use cases with a big selection of GCs as well as custom VMs that let's you do real time programming.
But as others pointed out, Android is not built on the JVM, but on Java. Java != JVM.
And the CLR is a pretty great VM too. It's performance isn't as great as the JVM, but it's darn close, while also offering a lot of ease of use over the JVM.
Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm sure it was difficult, but you can already ship C# code using Xamarin, no need to wait for Microsoft.
Xamarin is a bit of a hack. What we really need is a cross platform solid (i.e. not javascript) language supported natively. What would be ideal would be that Apple, Google and Microsoft sit together and agree on a common language and GUI API that would work on Android, iOS, Windows, MacOS and Linux natively.
C++? https://www.embarcadero.com/products/cbuilder
Or for something more like C#, Delphi? https://www.embarcadero.com/products/delphi
Both these platforms, which include a cross-platform UI library including native controls, are Windows, iOS, Android, macOS, and Linux in the next release.