Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#321

Post by che_shirecat » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 3:02 PM UTC

alistproducer2 wrote: post #150

prewett wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if you intended this meaning, but it sounds like you see (your) liberal view as the ultimately right one which will inevitably triumph in the end, its just bad tactics right now. I didn't notice this until after I got back to the US after some time in an authoritarian country, and I noticed that liberals had this similar authoritarianness of being unwilling to consider the merits of the other side, a fee…

>I noticed that liberals had this similar authoritarianness IMO this is what distinguishes a traditional liberal from a a progressive. For me, a liberal is basically libertarian with a belief the state can be used to ensure the rights of citizens are administered evenly. IMO, if someone's actions aren't depriving another of life or liberty, the state doesn't have much standing in regulating that activity. Progressive…

Thank you for elucidating what I've been attempting to communicate to people when I tell them I'm a liberal, not a progressive. Your point about conservatives being progressives of sort just in the other direction is spot on.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#322

Post by che_shirecat » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 3:02 PM UTC

alistproducer2 wrote: post #150

prewett wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if you intended this meaning, but it sounds like you see (your) liberal view as the ultimately right one which will inevitably triumph in the end, its just bad tactics right now. I didn't notice this until after I got back to the US after some time in an authoritarian country, and I noticed that liberals had this similar authoritarianness of being unwilling to consider the merits of the other side, a fee…

>I noticed that liberals had this similar authoritarianness IMO this is what distinguishes a traditional liberal from a a progressive. For me, a liberal is basically libertarian with a belief the state can be used to ensure the rights of citizens are administered evenly. IMO, if someone's actions aren't depriving another of life or liberty, the state doesn't have much standing in regulating that activity. Progressive…

Thank you for elucidating what I've been attempting to communicate to people when I tell them I'm a liberal, not a progressive. Your point about conservatives being progressives of sort just in the other direction is spot on.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#323

Post by woofyman » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 3:02 PM UTC

jimmywanger wrote: post #301

moon_priestess wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, the trans bathroom thing. I legitimately see both sides on that. How? Requiring trans people carry papers just so they can use the restroom doesn't strike you as just as little bit terrible? Trans people already use whichever bathroom they feel more safe and comfortable in: All these bathroom laws do is make life harder for members of what is already a very marginalized group. There's literally no posi…

> All these bathroom laws do is make life harder for members of what is already a very marginalized group. I've had discussions with psychologists and trans people. This illustrates the disconnect we're seeing between the left and the public. Trans people are a vanishingly small proportion of the population, compared to the people who have lost jobs when their manufacturing jobs moved overseas. Worrying about their d…

It was conservatives who made a big deal over bathrooms by passing laws.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#324

Post by che_shirecat » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 3:05 PM UTC

jknoepfler wrote: post #96

xaa wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. The first thing I thought upon reading this was: would Twitter ban an account with the following description: "dedicated to the heritage, identity, and future of people of African descent in the United States, and around the world." Undoubtedly not. The only difference, of course, is s/African/European/g. I'm a liberal, but I feel that if this election has taught us anything, it should be that suppression of "…

I agree with your broader point that suppression of viewpoints in the marketplace of ideas is a bad idea, but I strongly disagree with the idea that Twitter is inconsistent for treating compositionally identical sentences differently. For example, if you substitute "Swedish" or "German" or something more specific than "European," you get something that doesn't set off alarm bells, just as with "African" (or "Eritrean…

Excellent point, context is 95% of meaning, especially around nuanced topics such as race.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#325

Post by JoeAltmaier » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 3:06 PM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #262

kemayo wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My preferred analogy to use here is that saying "it's not just black lives that matter, all lives matter" is like going to your fire department and saying "it's not just houses on fire that matter, all houses matter". Yes, of course, they do. But some houses need immediate attention because they're in danger.

Then it's a failure in marketing, as the fire deparment doesn't market itself as "department for throwing water at houses". Maybe BLM should be more clear about its goals? I'm not really up-to-speed with US politics, but I know it's horrifying how easily and with impunity the police have been killing black people. Still, "Black lives matter" isn't a great slogan, and calling "all lives matter" racist definitely seems…

Yeah its a knee-jerk reaction and sad. The more accurate slogan would be "Black Lives Also Matter" but that isn't as effective. I think we all really understand that's what "Black Lives Matter" means. The real question is, why the strong counter-reaction? Why the sophistry around the slogan? What is that covering for?

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#326

Post by v64 » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 3:07 PM UTC

panic wrote: post #121

rustynails77 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's look at it another way. Ban all hate groups, or don't ban any of them. However, don't pick and choose. I don't agree with Neo Nazis. I hold Neo Nazis with the same contempt that I hold feminists. Why not apply the policy for all hate groups? For example, in Australia we refuse to acknowledge the approximately 25% of violence and abuse by females within the household. The worst case statistic is NSW ("Twice as m…

Feminism isn't a hate group. Feminists (at least the overwhelmingly vast majority) aren't trying to abuse or kill men. It's true that female-on-male abuse is ignored too often, but I don't think you can blame feminists for this: they're just focused on other issues.

> but I don't think you can blame feminists for this: they're just focused on other issues.

The problem is, liberals are vilifying Trump supporters for exactly that, being focused on other issues instead of social justice. They say that it doesn't matter that you disagreed with Hillary's liberal policies, putting conservatism over social justice makes you a complicit racist.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#327

Post by fixxer » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 3:12 PM UTC

alistproducer2 wrote: post #113

leereeves wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the left seriously damaged their ability to fight racist ideas when they abandoned the idea of equality. Now, the left calls colorblindness and "all lives matter" racist. (Remember when Martin O'Malley was destroyed for saying that?) They create advantageous standards based on race, and even exclusive positions for non-white applicants. (For example, at the BBC.) And I too doubt they would object to "dedi…

HN is a bad place to discuss this sort of stuff because you're always risking karma, but here goes. As a liberal, I will say that liberals drastically overplayed their hand the last 8 years. Many of us have been saying for a while that the language, tenor, and actions of recent liberal movements was ultimately counter productive. I understand and share the demand to be treated decently and equally, but admittedly thi…

This is such an elegant synopsis.

I've been saying this to my HRC-supporter friends, many are horrified that I could vote for Trump. A few are no longer friends (by their choice, screaming at me from the top of their lungs that I voted for Hitler).

The manner in which we discuss our differences matters.

For this election, for me (a moderate in a left-leaning city), the left was worse. I genuinely hope they can change.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#328

Post by JoeAltmaier » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 3:12 PM UTC

v64 wrote: post #326

panic wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feminism isn't a hate group. Feminists (at least the overwhelmingly vast majority) aren't trying to abuse or kill men. It's true that female-on-male abuse is ignored too often, but I don't think you can blame feminists for this: they're just focused on other issues.

> but I don't think you can blame feminists for this: they're just focused on other issues. The problem is, liberals are vilifying Trump supporters for exactly that, being focused on other issues instead of social justice. They say that it doesn't matter that you disagreed with Hillary's liberal policies, putting conservatism over social justice makes you a complicit racist.

Some of that is being done. Its hard to see issues of social justice being marginalized, and not see it as racist.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#329

Post by cloudsloth » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 3:15 PM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #262

kemayo wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My preferred analogy to use here is that saying "it's not just black lives that matter, all lives matter" is like going to your fire department and saying "it's not just houses on fire that matter, all houses matter". Yes, of course, they do. But some houses need immediate attention because they're in danger.

Then it's a failure in marketing, as the fire deparment doesn't market itself as "department for throwing water at houses". Maybe BLM should be more clear about its goals? I'm not really up-to-speed with US politics, but I know it's horrifying how easily and with impunity the police have been killing black people. Still, "Black lives matter" isn't a great slogan, and calling "all lives matter" racist definitely seems…

I think it's a great slogan. If everyone (society at large) aleady believed all lives matter then it would be a dumb slogan. It's a great slogan because currently black lives don't matter in many people's eyes. In my experience the only people who don't like the slogan either don't think black lives matter or are absurdly blind to the reality of racism in this country.

The controversy isn't because it's a bad slogan. The controversy is evidence of it being the correct slogan.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#330

Post by Karunamon » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 3:19 PM UTC

colemickens wrote: post #164

Karunamon wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So yeah, we are getting different results. Just looking at your top 3, I don't even see those posters in the list. I'm not blocked by them or anything, since your links work for me when logged in. Filter bubble shenanigans? There is no need whatsoever for these theatrics over a simple disagreement, for crying out loud. If I had my druthers, the owners of every single tweet linked in this thread, yours as well, would…

>There is no need whatsoever for these theatrics over a simple disagreement, for crying out loud. Oh I dunno, it might have something to do with you implying that I support the idea of any person telling any other person to kill themselves. >You will note that I said Twitter has no issues with those with leftist political leanings telling others to kill themselves. That statement is still true, but misleading in the…

you implying that I support the idea of any person telling any other person to kill themselves.

!? Holy shit dude, if that's what I implied, I apologize, because that was absolutely not my intent whatsoever. That statement was directed at Twitter, not you.

That was an awfully artful way of saying you were full of shit without having to actually admit you were wrong.

I was wrong. Better? I was more interested in trying to figure out how and why I was wrong.

but instead you went with "a liberal conspiracy to allow threats towards conservatives" despite the incredible ease of finding counter examples.

Fine, we'll instead go with "a liberal conspiracy to to place angry conservative tweets as more important than terrorist propaganda", something for which there is plenty of evidence of.