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Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

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Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#301

Post by jimmywanger »

moon_priestess wrote: post #270
alistproducer2 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I noticed that liberals had this similar authoritarianness IMO this is what distinguishes a traditional liberal from a a progressive. For me, a liberal is basically libertarian with a belief the state can be used to ensure the rights of citizens are administered evenly. IMO, if someone's actions aren't depriving another of life or liberty, the state doesn't have much standing in regulating that activity. Progressive…

> For example, the trans bathroom thing. I legitimately see both sides on that. How? Requiring trans people carry papers just so they can use the restroom doesn't strike you as just as little bit terrible? Trans people already use whichever bathroom they feel more safe and comfortable in: All these bathroom laws do is make life harder for members of what is already a very marginalized group. There's literally no posi…

> All these bathroom laws do is make life harder for members of what is already a very marginalized group.

I've had discussions with psychologists and trans people.

This illustrates the disconnect we're seeing between the left and the public.

Trans people are a vanishingly small proportion of the population, compared to the people who have lost jobs when their manufacturing jobs moved overseas.

Worrying about their desires (a tiny percentage of the population) and de-prioritizing the desires of a far larger group of people is insulting to the people who have lost jobs and can't find new ones. Talk about skewed priorities.

Also, if you thought you were Napoleon or black (and happened not to be black), you'd be roundly laughed at and diagnosed with a mental illness, and sent to therapy, resources permitting. Similarly, you can argue that Trans people have a mental illness - they think they're something they're not. It's just that the therapy to disabuse them of the notion is more trouble than it's worth.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#302

Post by nailer »

quonn wrote: post #275
nailer wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://gb.lmgtfy.com/?q=chavez+torture

That's not a source, that's a Google search. In fact even for your search no results come up (for me) that suggest what you claim. And I'm not even talking about the reputation of potential sources. I have actually made an effort and checked, for example Amnesty International for the time that Chavez was in power. I don't find evidence that he tortured most of his opponents, sorry.

Yes, it is a Google search. That is a stellar observation. Using a search engine would have been less characters than asking me. For example, you could click:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Venezuela#2000...

and read up this from Amnesty https://web.archive.org/web/20070922230635/http://web.amnest... :

> The security forces have reportedly used excessive force, and detained large numbers of opposition supporters, during nationwide street protests against the government of President Hugo Chavez. At least nine people have died and scores of others have been injured, including a number of police officers. Amnesty International is concerned that there may be further politically motivated violence, and disproportionate police response.

or http://www.weeklystandard.com/horror-in-venezuela/article/34... (I haven't heard of Weekly Standard before though)

> At the hospital he was detained by the DISIP, Chavez's secret police, and taken to their headquarters for questioning.

> During his interrogation, fingernails in his left hand were torn out. After being further tortured and injected with drugs, the secret police took him into the bowels of the building and placed him in a cell.

Or this from the BBC (I have heard of these):

> Venezuela troops 'used torture'

> Troops are accused of beating and kicking detainees Venezuelan ombudsman German Mundarain has said security forces tortured some protesters who were detained during recent anti-government demonstrations.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3571383.stm

Are you seriously claiming Chavez isn't a well known human rights abuser or are you debating what constitututes 'most' or 'an opponent' like whether that changes my point that Chavez used violence just as Mao and Pol Pot did and that most normal humans think that's a bad thing?

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#303

Post by orcdork »

micaksica wrote: post #8

I'm not a fan of the "alt-right" or a lot of its subculture. I also don't find it particularly "alt", as much as it is "far" right. It is a lot of the ideas that powered the NSDAP enveloped in the language of the Internet and memes, with the targets broadened from Jewry to non-whites in general. However, I'm also not a fan of suspending these accounts for controversial views if they are not harassing people on the Tw…

I guess this comment is what people said "normalizing hate speech" is all about. The "alt" right isn't a subculture sharing unpopular information against the status quo, this is a group of people spreading hate speech against other, vulnerable groups.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#304

Post by lawless123 »

alistproducer2 wrote: post #156
rm999 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Micro-aggression, safe spaces, trigger words I think you're missing some perspective on this; a small % of activists on the left (mostly on college campuses) do not represent the trends of liberals in the USA. I can't think of a mainstream Democrat who considers these serious causes (including liberal ones like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren). The reality is the left has been making huge inroads on social cause…

>a small % of activists on the left A vocal minority + rapid societal change + social media echo chambers = reactionary backlash = Donald Trump presidency >I wouldn't extrapolate much from this election I would. 60+ million people voting for a man as odious and unprepared as Donald Trump says a whole lot to me. That and pretty much total Republican domination on the state level. The GOP is one state house away from b…

I've seen tons of facebook groups full of people sharing fake articles with absolutely nothing to back it up, it happened on both sides but the stuff about Hillary was completely off the wall yet people lapped it up.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#305

Post by spacemanmatt »

jsmith0295 wrote: post #179
sangnoir wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I noticed that liberals had this similar authoritarianness of being unwilling to consider the merits of the other side I am not American, but I must say on the level of politicians, Obama repeatedly tried to be bipartisan and was repeatedly rebuffed by the GOP who seemed intent on grinding the government to a halt. Frankly, and it made the Dems look like a pathetic 'hanger-on', IMO. "Considering the merits of the o…

That is really not true given the full history of things. Most Republicans were very willing to compromise after Obama first took office, but he elected to completely ignore them instead since he had a super majority. At that point the only thing they had left to do was to be obstructionist, and I'm sure he was very aware of the potential political consequences of jamming legislation through in the beginning of his a…

> since he had a super majority.

That doesn't explain the other 6 years pure obstruction.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#306

Post by bbctol »

throwanem wrote: post #294
bbctol wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you would ban post-menopausal women from getting married. Understood.

Again: no. I'm not sure what value you find in attempting to mischaracterize my argument by assuming results which do not follow from anything I have actually said.

I'm sorry: you would hesitate to extend marriage rights to post-menopausal women.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#307

Post by throwanem »

tanderson92 wrote: post #298
throwanem wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm looking to find a balance between the interests of the state and those of its individual citizens. In a heterogeneous society, which all societies to some extent are, this is a complex question. To oversimplify it benefits no one. And do you really want to equate homosexuality and infertility, which for all intents and purposes is a medical disorder? Is that where you want this conversation to go? It's not where…

I don't believe the intent was to call your sexuality a disorder, it was to demonstrate the dangers of applying rights by class instead of universally.

There's a difference between applying rights and inventing them. The latter is certainly worth doing when it's warranted, but it also strikes me as worth setting a very high standard for doing so, because in a state constituted as ours is, to create a new right instantly overrides broad swaths of existing law and precedent. Such potentially dangerous actions should not be contemplated except in a case where their absence perpetuates a harm so grievous and unjust that nothing less will do.

As I've argued at length in this thread and the comments I've linked therein, I don't think it's reasonable to consider that standard met here.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#308

Post by kofejnik »

xaa wrote: post #38
micaksica wrote: post #8

I'm not a fan of the "alt-right" or a lot of its subculture. I also don't find it particularly "alt", as much as it is "far" right. It is a lot of the ideas that powered the NSDAP enveloped in the language of the Internet and memes, with the targets broadened from Jewry to non-whites in general. However, I'm also not a fan of suspending these accounts for controversial views if they are not harassing people on the Tw…

Agree. The first thing I thought upon reading this was: would Twitter ban an account with the following description: "dedicated to the heritage, identity, and future of people of African descent in the United States, and around the world." Undoubtedly not. The only difference, of course, is s/African/European/g. I'm a liberal, but I feel that if this election has taught us anything, it should be that suppression of "…

Just stumbled upon exactly this:

"Equality

Twitter demonstrates the SJW commitment to one of the five fundamental pillars of their social justice ideology.

I fucking hate white people and their inconsiderate asses for voting for Trump. Fuck you! 1:57 AM 9 Nov 2016

Twitter, in response to a complaint about the above tweet:

Thank you for reporting this issue to us. Our goal is to create a safe environment for everyone on Twitter to express themselves freely. We reviewed your report carefully and found that there was no violation of Twitter's Rules regarding abusive behavior.

I fucking hate black people and their inconsiderate asses for voting for Clinton. Fuck you! 4:08 AM 16 Nov 2016

Twitter, in response to a complaint about the above tweet:

We've investigated and suspended the account you reported as it was found to be participating in abusive behavior."

from http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/11/equality.html?m=1

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#309

Post by harveywi »

matt4077 wrote: post #256
prewett wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if you intended this meaning, but it sounds like you see (your) liberal view as the ultimately right one which will inevitably triumph in the end, its just bad tactics right now. I didn't notice this until after I got back to the US after some time in an authoritarian country, and I noticed that liberals had this similar authoritarianness of being unwilling to consider the merits of the other side, a fee…

I'm willing to say that, yes, most "liberal" ideas are ultimately right, and will ultimately prevail. History has by and large been a march towards these ideals. Freedom, equal chances, some organized support isolating you from the raw&random powers of markets&nature. That believe isn't new, by the way. The first progressive would have said: "We believe these truths to be self-evident".

> History

History is the past as it is described in written documents. In other words, a narrative.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#310

Post by ejstronge »

jsmith0295 wrote: post #179
sangnoir wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I noticed that liberals had this similar authoritarianness of being unwilling to consider the merits of the other side I am not American, but I must say on the level of politicians, Obama repeatedly tried to be bipartisan and was repeatedly rebuffed by the GOP who seemed intent on grinding the government to a halt. Frankly, and it made the Dems look like a pathetic 'hanger-on', IMO. "Considering the merits of the o…

That is really not true given the full history of things. Most Republicans were very willing to compromise after Obama first took office, but he elected to completely ignore them instead since he had a super majority. At that point the only thing they had left to do was to be obstructionist, and I'm sure he was very aware of the potential political consequences of jamming legislation through in the beginning of his a…

I think we must have lived in two different countries following Obama's election.

The financial world was crumbling, and both parties recognized that drastic economic action was required.

Later, when Obama undertook healthcare reform - a project he had won both EC and popular support for - Republicans initially supported him. The Tea Party and the coming midterm elections pulled them to the right, and their success in 2010 left us with the obstructionism that we continue to see.

Related to the 'political showmanship' - if you recall the Boehner-Obama negotiations, I could hardly characterize that as showmanship. Representative Boehner risked his position as leader to try to demonstrate Republican cooperation but was ultimately drawn back by his party.

Overall, I read your comment as one that is supporting the 'Republican party line' without the context of following the events occurring during the Obama presidency. I would be keen to read any evidence you have in contradiction to the points I have raised.

[1] Here's an article describing the orchestrated obstructionism from the lens of 2012:

   - https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/biden-mcconnell-decided-to-withhold-all-cooperation-even-before-we-took-office/2012/08/10/64e9a138-e302-11e1-98e7-89d659f9c106_blog.html
[2] First, I should say that the individual mandate in Obamacare is fundamentally a 'Republican' (vs conservative) idea, having been implemented in Massachusetts and appeared in 'Republican'-leaning journals.

Second, there was Republican support for the ACA. You'll say 'no one' voted for the bill but the bill's signing was delayed as additions were continually made to appease Republicans who were on, the fence but eventually decided not to vote for the ACA. One Republican Representative did support the bill after it was clear it would pass. Indeed, there had been bipartisan efforts to create an ACA-like bill before the Tea Party pulled the Republicans to the right; see the third link.

   - http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/health-bill-earns-one-republican-vote/

   - http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll887.xml [See Rep. A J Cao's vote]

   - http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/may/12/george-will/george-will-pegs-sen-bennetts-loss-votes-tarp-stim/
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