Don’t Mess with The Google • Hacker News Board

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#371

Post by forgottenpass » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:02 PM UTC

kajecounterhack wrote: post #120

Disclaimer: I don't speak for Google and don't have any real context into why this occurred. Speaking as myself, a private citizen. I work in Spam & Abuse and it's possible that this is the result of some clustering algorithm that was trying to take down sharders / phone buying rings. It's very possible that the SWEs responsible didn't consider this possibility (that legitimate customers would be used to shard purcha…

is more a perfect storm of big-company policy decisions

Naming storms like this is about rare they are. A "10 year storm" or "100 year storm" only happen once in that period. So they refer to a 10% or 1% chance that an X-year storm that would happen in any given year.

Is this cock-up is so bad that you don't expect a Google company to make a similar or more severe cock-up for DECADES? Then it's not a perfect storm. This was a common storm. In fact, I'm very doubtful it was as a "storm" inside of google at all. This is just another "whoopsie" bug fix, isn't it?

This right here is why people get the impression google thinks it's farts don't stink. Not only that you act as if this is a "perfect storm" but the arrogance it takes to design a system where just because an engineer didn't consider a use case, you're perfectly happy to assume it must be abuse.

Yes, this case will probably be fixed, but would it have been if it didn't pop up on the right back channels to get Googlers attention?

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#372

Post by deanCommie » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:04 PM UTC

taneq wrote: post #352

smonff wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self storage is fine but does it guaranty long term documents safety? I am very sceptical about my ability of maintaining it on the long term.

Are you seriously less trusting of your own ability to drop a bunch of documents onto a USB drive every week or few than you are of a company which explicitly tells you they can shut off your access with no warning and no recourse for any reason?

...yes?

Because the likelyhood of Google banning your access is way lower than * Data corruption * House fires * Human error (Cleanup, house moves, random acts of brain farts, and suddenly you can't find your USB stick)

Google's data is presumably replicated across multiple AZs, and they have more automation invested in data integrity.

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#373

Post by yuubi » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:05 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #246

cowl wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bundling a browser with the OS that had 98% of all user share at the time. neither Apple not Google come anywhere close to that market domination with their iOS or Android systems. Also the case was much more broad that just the browser it was for software that runs on the OS. Antitrust is not just about what a company does but mainly about what other alternatives are out there. In Microsoft's case there were no othe…

I accept Microsoft followed many predatory and anti-competitive practices. They were a nightmare and deserved a good anti-trust kicking. But hammering them for bundling a browser was just plain stupid. If they didn't bundle a browser, how would people download a competing browser? You'd have had to get hold of a browser on CD somewhere and install it manually just to use the internet. How would that have been an impr…

    ftp ftp.netscape.com

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#374

Post by SonicSoul » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:05 PM UTC

setq wrote: post #170

First post, might as well be a cautionary tale. My father, a pretty old programmer by anyone's standards, regularly warns me of this sort of thing. He was pretty much shafted by CompuServe many years ago on a miniscule scale compared to what is possible now. He lives his life in what I previously described as a paranoid bubble of data control. Until I inevitably burned myself with Google. I have no idea what happened…

thanks for posting this cautionary tale. I am completely dependent on Google today so if that happened i'd be F'd. Will look into exporting all my emails this weekend.

But why was Google unable to re-instate you? Was it because you had no way to prove your identity to them? Were you able to reach anyone?

for those in similar situation you can back up your email/calendar here: https://takeout.google.com/settings/takeout/custom/gmail,cal...

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#375

Post by Whitestrake » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:09 PM UTC

kuschku wrote: post #313

cowl wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it doesn't matter is they are established before or after. all it matters is that users have the choice and choosing these (and other) products over the Google provided ones. Google has bundled a form of messenger app since forever with its services. People just keep choosing other better ones. Google has tried 2-3 time to break into the social scene but even though Google Buzz was bundled with gmail it was not used.…

> it doesn't matter is they are established before or after. Yes, it does, that’s the entire point. Will we still see as much innovation in 10, 20 years? For that, this part is very important. > The simple fact of bundling is not a problem when there are choices. Google forbids OEMs from selling custom Android forks. That’s not choice. As said, both the EU and US consider this anticompetitive, and are investigating i…

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Google does not license the Google Play Services to be bundled by OEMs who sell custom Android forks?

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#376

Post by pmlnr » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:10 PM UTC

Kristine1975 wrote: post #367

pmlnr wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a home server, which is then mirrored to a rented server. Anything critical and entirely irreplaceable goes onto blu-ray disks, because I can't accidentally delete those; though those are kept at home as well, which is not ideal. So: 2 backups, from which one is off-site and archives, just in case - this should keep you going for a while with self storage.

>Anything critical and entirely irreplaceable goes onto blu-ray disks, because I can't accidentally delete those There's bit-rot though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_degradation#Decay_of_stor...

I'm aware of that too well; blu-ray, however, is slightly better than the predecessors: even the current, non-archival grade single layer Panasonics should - according to some accelerated tests - last 5-10 years. Now, looking at the current ideas from Sony[1], within 8-10 years every data I ever had will need 1 disk, so I'm not worried.

[1]: http://www.computerworld.com/article/3057889/data-storage/so...

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#377

Post by lorenzhs » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:10 PM UTC

brongondwana wrote: post #310

peddicord wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does FastMail have any equivalent to Inbox (reminders/snoozing emails)? I started to migrate last month, got lazy when I realized how much I used those, and then I think my trial account lapsed. This article might scare me enough into trying again anyway, but if I can find any replacement for reminders (Fastmail or otherwise) that's as nice to use I'll jump over so fast.

We don't have snooze yet, but it's getting really close. We have a plan for it which I started on nearly a year ago (Christmas day 2015!) and then it got mothballed behind other things - but we have a grand plan for how it would work, so it's a matter of some more internal plumbing.

That is fantastic to hear! I currently use the iOS Reminders app to remind me to check out that email again, and it would be really nice not to have that layer of indirection.

While we're on the topic of wishlist items: I'd love to have sync in the app. It sucks not being able to access any emails when I don't have internet (on the subway or a car/train in some remote area, even in some shielded buildings, etc). It would be fantastic if I could tell it to store the last two weeks' emails (possibly even per-folder, "store all in folder X, last week in Y, last month in Z"). That's the feature I miss most from your app.

Other than that, keep rocking :) FastMail is awesome!

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#378

Post by nilved » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:11 PM UTC

vilhelm_s wrote: post #8

This really seems like it needs to be regulated in law. For telephone companies, there are rules about when they may disconnect you, e.g. the Arizona Utilities Division write > f I am unable to pay my entire bill, what can I do to maintain local dial tone? > The Arizona Administrative Code specifically states that a telephone company may not disconnect a customer for failure to pay an unregulated portion of their bil…

> This really seems like it needs to be regulated in law.

Or use backups. Don't go crying to the government when you can handle it yourself.

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#379

Post by nilved » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:13 PM UTC

hellofunk wrote: post #209

zhte415 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Have your own domain name. You can change provider from Z to Y at the flash a DNS record gets updated. Email is designed as a federated service, but to be so your email _address_ needs to be too. 2. For files, use a cloud solution and have 2-3 computers updating their local copy (home PC, work PC, phone, small Pi box acting as server). I have a Digital Ocean box running ownCloud, soon to change to nextCloud. Put y…

Don't forget about the guy whose twitter account was stolen because a hacker got access to his email _because_ the weak link was a custom domain and poor security at Godaddy. The domain was hacked, giving the attacker full access to email, and therefore ability to change passwords, transfer ownership of a prized twitter account and more. It has been discussed here quite a bit. The folks that answer phones at domain r…

Your email is always the keys to the kingdom, but I trust Gandi a lot more than I trust Google.

GoDaddy is probably the worst choice someone could make. 2FA is mandatory for email and domains.

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#380

Post by nilved » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:14 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #118

Rule Zero: Never rely on a URL that you don't control. Use your own domain name for your e-mail addresses. Use your own domain name for canonical links to content. If you control the URLs, you do not depend on any one provider. Rule One: If you only have one copy, you have no copies. It is an act of faith to assume that a Youtube video or a file in Google Drive will remain available, just as it's an act of faith to a…

> Rule Zero: Never rely on a URL that you don't control. Use your own domain name for your e-mail addresses. Use your own domain name for canonical links to content. If you control the URLs, you do not depend on any one provider.

You do not own your domain name. It's better than using google.com, but your domain name can be stolen or seized just as well.