Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions • Hacker News Board

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#451

Post by csydas » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:08 PM UTC

kitd wrote: post #357

csydas wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yah, this can make an overwhelming difference in the long run. I used to drive semi-regularly between Wisconsin and Minnesota, a stretch of about 280 miles; others in my family would make the same trip with the same car during the same times of year, and my mileage per tank was always significantly different, and we couldn't figure out why initially. Turns out they used cruise control for most of the stretch, which I…

For clarity, did cruise control produce better or worse mpg figures?

Ah, yeah, I see how what I wrote was not clear.

Cruise control was significantly worse than driving it normally, at least when I was at the wheel.

The route is a very hilly one, so I somewhat suspect it's that the cruise control was not very good at knowing when to accelerate and when to coast.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#452

Post by csydas » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:08 PM UTC

kitd wrote: post #357

csydas wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yah, this can make an overwhelming difference in the long run. I used to drive semi-regularly between Wisconsin and Minnesota, a stretch of about 280 miles; others in my family would make the same trip with the same car during the same times of year, and my mileage per tank was always significantly different, and we couldn't figure out why initially. Turns out they used cruise control for most of the stretch, which I…

For clarity, did cruise control produce better or worse mpg figures?

Ah, yeah, I see how what I wrote was not clear.

Cruise control was significantly worse than driving it normally, at least when I was at the wheel.

The route is a very hilly one, so I somewhat suspect it's that the cruise control was not very good at knowing when to accelerate and when to coast.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#453

Post by petercooper » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:10 PM UTC

mbrookes wrote: post #443

petercooper wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slight tangent but my car could fail the test then :) It automatically coasts (yep, engine back to idle and everything) when in it's most economical automatic mode.

Hi Peter - I should have specified that this is for manual shift. What sort of car do you have if you don't mind me asking? (And is it Ruby Red? :) )

Haha, yes, that's why I specified it as a tangent. I did think it was a weird feature though as I knew the controversy over coasting :) And yep, a red AMG A45!

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#454

Post by vinay427 » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:11 PM UTC

torrent-of-ions wrote: post #345

bitL wrote: post #339

I never understood how to use automatic transmission in snowy/icy conditions. To me it's basically a lottery. With manual transmission and clutch I can actually recover from a slide almost immediately (the moment you start sliding you disengage transmission right away with clutch and do initial correcting maneuver which you cut short the moment you feel any kind of traction in order not to oversteer; it takes some pr…

Dude, many Americans can't drive in rain let alone snow and ice.

I'm not sure where you're getting that. There are hundreds of thousands in my area that seem to do it for several months every year.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#455

Post by crispyambulance » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:11 PM UTC

torrent-of-ions wrote: post #366

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I knew it was rare for people to know manual transmissions, but why such a preference for automatic? I think this is twofold. First off, most drivers education doesn't teach a manual transmission anymore, nor is drivers education a requirement. While my parents learned on a simulator in school, I learned it from experience (and so happy I did) - my first car was a manual. But the second part of this is that there t…

> nor is drivers education a requirement This is it really. Americans aren't very good at driving. In the UK we are taught that it's one of the most dangerous things you'll do in your life, which it is. In America it's just like learning to walk. You have to do it and it doesn't matter how you learn. Check out the road safety stats. USA is pretty much an outlier amongst first world countries by most metrics.

The key figure, I think, is number of fatalities per billion vehicle Kilometers. For the USA that is 7.1. Unfortunately, Americans drive A LOT MORE than most other countries, so raw annual fatality count is very high (~34K). By comparison UK has 3.6 fatalities/billion KM and fatality count of 1.8K. Population ratio is ~6:1 US:UK. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...)

There are other countries where fatalities are much higher.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#456

Post by nommm-nommm » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:12 PM UTC

3poundkilograms wrote: post #250

vmarsy wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>when automatic transmissions are consistently outperforming humans at fuel efficiency Do you have data to back this up? Unless you're driving a dual clutch "dry" transmission or a CVT, because of Physics, an automatic transmission will always be less efficient. The Automatic transmission Torque converter [1] will waste some of the energy provided by the engine, especially with city driving. Also, most automatic cars…

Well, engine braking to the red light would have been more efficient. :) But indeed, automatic cars are less efficient. They do not know what you will do next, so they often make erroneous gear shifts that waste fuel and time. They don't know when to coast or when to engine brake (For older transmissions, the overdrive gear had permanent coasting, and could not engine brake at all), often have lossy pumps, etc. Dual…

>But indeed, automatic cars are less efficient.

Browsing fueleconomy.gov looks like that's no longer the case. Looks like the newest versions of the Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, and Toyota Corolla have better gas mileage with the automatic transmission, for example.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#457

Post by smileysteve » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:13 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #168

sshanky wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In modern cars, disengaging the clutch (or using neutral) when coasting (toward a stop or down a hill) is less efficient than staying in gear. This is because it takes some fuel to keep the engine idling, where staying in gear allows the computer to completely cut fuel flow, as long as the forward motion is keeping the engine turning.

How modern is modern? I could believe this of my 2009 Honda Fit, but I'm fairly certain that my dad's '92 Civic, '99 Civic, and '92 Accord got better mileage when coasting with the clutch disengaged.

Had a manual 85 RX-7; it had fuel cutoff above 1000 rpm when coasting (drivetrain engaged)

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#458

Post by Annatar » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:14 PM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #173

eveningcoffee wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, downvoted for honest and informed opinion. Unfortunately this is quite common in HN.

I downvoted you for random assumptions and insulting people you never talked to. > a modern automatic transmission is controlled by firmware, a unikernel Have you seen the source? If not, how do you know it's a unikernel? > The shift points and the shifting logic are based on the developers' very dim understanding of economy and of performance driving "dim understanding"? Do you have a reference for any of that? Why…

I have noticed systemic abuse of ad hominem labeling anyone who doesn't lavish high praise and criticizes instead.

Please show some emapthy and think about how the code could be improved instead, so these criticisms can be addressed with a practical solution.

In this particular case, all my criticisms can be addressed by offering a manual transmission option with a dry clutch, not even code optimization is required.

Also, as a firmware writer, you know that all such source code is under strict non-disclosure agreements, and whatever I know or have seen, I wouldn't be at liberty to discuss or cite, or else I risk legal penalties. We're neither anonymous nor protected here.

As for unikernel, any firmware or subsystem concerned with one task - such as running a vehicle - is by definition a unikernel - all firmware is, as its running one single monolithic application image.

Developers versus mechanical engineers - in this context a mechanical engineer is also a developer, just of the transmission, and they often write the software themselves, too.

Finally, as a firmware writer, please explain to me why there is a lag between depressing an accelerator pedal in a 2011 Volkswagen Golf, why the engine will often konk out unless the accelerator pedal is pressed fully when starting on a hill, and why a 2012 Buick LaCrosse will display "shift denied" on the dashboard when I try to upshift from 5th to 6th going at 1,400 RPM, which would put me at 1,200 RPM, well within the engine's ability to continue running efficiently?

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#459

Post by vinay427 » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:14 PM UTC

exclusiv wrote: post #117

zippergz wrote: post #35

I'm a car enthusiast, and I was a manual transmission purist for many, many years. But then I had to be honest with myself, and admit that the VAST majority of my driving is commuting in traffic. And that driving is much less annoying with an automatic. My leisure driving is maybe 5% less fun without a manual, but that's far outweighed by how much better my daily commute is. At this point, I'd only buy a manual for a…

While I agree regarding traffic I think everyone would be way more courteous and the roads would be safer if everyone drove a manual.

I realize you received a few of these comments already, but please also check out India if you think driving a manual improves safety and courtesy.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#460

Post by overcast » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:15 PM UTC

Finally, I'm one of the three percent!

I bought my first manual transmission car at the end of 2009, a BMW 328. Learned how to drive manual right then and there in the parking lot next to the dealer shit. Been having fun ever since :) I will say, the BMW gearbox is WAAAAAAY easier to learn on then some of those other clunkers I've played with since.