Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#191

Post by serge2k » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 11:04 AM UTC

micaksica wrote: post #44

nostromo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see "alt-right" as being so similar to "far-right" based on my limited exposure. I've watched some debates with Milo as well as Gavin Mcinnes. They are definitely not what most Americans would call "far-right" -- in that they aren't anti-gay, aren't anti-drugs, aren't socially conservative, and aren't particularly hawkish. They seem to dislike Republicans like Paul Ryan almost as much as Nancy Pelosi. Milo re…

I can hardly call myself an expert on the "alt right" either, but the difference is in use of term. When leftists think "Right wing" in the US think of the Christian theocracy. However, conservatism is only one sect of the right. The right is also reactionary, and the alt-right is definitely reactionary. I'd argue the alt-right fits nicely into Wikipedia's definition of far-right politics [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedi…

> When leftists think "Right wing" in the US think of the Christian theocracy

Because the republicans have been using that as a very loud base for a long time now.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#192

Post by leereeves » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 11:06 AM UTC

danudey wrote: post #158

autognosis wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're all crap labels. They contain no knowledge. What confused people call "liberals" aren't so about firearms and markets. "Liberal" is from the latin word for "freedom". SJWs are not liberal. They don't want free speech. CA is not a liberal state by looking at its taxes and firearms laws. These are authoritarian ideas. Rectification of names... Labels and Knowledge are totally independent things.

Freedom can include the freedom from harasment, which is a curtailing of speech. That's a liberal idea. The other alternative is 'let people say anything they want and they can just learn to deal with it', which doesn't work with e.g. death threats, harassment, etc. That's why one freedom might be more important than another. People who claim it's a negative are usually upset that they can't attack, belittle, or hara…

> People who claim it's a negative are usually upset that they can't attack, belittle, or harass other people for their own amusement, I've found.

You say, as you attack and belittle people you disagree with...

(...not only people who behave that way, but everyone who thinks censorship is a negative.)

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#193

Post by metilda » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 11:12 AM UTC

jsmith0295 wrote: post #182

rm999 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Micro-aggression, safe spaces, trigger words I think you're missing some perspective on this; a small % of activists on the left (mostly on college campuses) do not represent the trends of liberals in the USA. I can't think of a mainstream Democrat who considers these serious causes (including liberal ones like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren). The reality is the left has been making huge inroads on social cause…

It's not just a small percentage of activists. I'm 21, and I live in Ohio, which Trump won by 9 points, and it seems like a huge portion of people about my age are proponents of these ideas, on or off of college campuses. People call things "white" as in insult, they constantly say things like "white people have no culture", and really do seem to believe that all evil in the world is the result of things white men do…

Huh, out on the West Coast I've only encountered a minor amount of this coddling "it's all white racists fault" BS on college campuses. I've expected more, but the worst I've seen is pronoun related (aka "What's your pronoun?"), which I respond to with schlee, cause fuck tracking someone else's pronoun, that is not my job. Use what you want, don't try to force me to remember your shit (name, pronoun, etc)!

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#194

Post by masondixon » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 11:16 AM UTC

drawkbox wrote: post #31

Not a good idea at all, I am never for censorship and I think we are losing sight of why freedom of speech is important which is insane to me. It is good all these ideas are out there even if you don't agree with them. Shrouding them will only encourage it. Strict absolutist and authoritative law/parenting almost always leads to acting out, while passive law/parenting let's knowledge decide individual choice. Putting…

> we are losing sight of why freedom of speech is important which is insane to me.

I'm with you. Its very difficult to find people like you who think practically and consider side-effects, etc.

I'm curious as to whether this has changed over time. And how could the founding fathers have such foresight.

Where have all the thinkers gone?

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#195

Post by tdkl » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 11:18 AM UTC

jsmith0295 wrote: post #182

rm999 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Micro-aggression, safe spaces, trigger words I think you're missing some perspective on this; a small % of activists on the left (mostly on college campuses) do not represent the trends of liberals in the USA. I can't think of a mainstream Democrat who considers these serious causes (including liberal ones like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren). The reality is the left has been making huge inroads on social cause…

It's not just a small percentage of activists. I'm 21, and I live in Ohio, which Trump won by 9 points, and it seems like a huge portion of people about my age are proponents of these ideas, on or off of college campuses. People call things "white" as in insult, they constantly say things like "white people have no culture", and really do seem to believe that all evil in the world is the result of things white men do…

Sounds like "if the only tool you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail" view of the world. People throwing "white" as a slur, then react like a victim when someone opposes. Hypocrisy over 11, but sadly fixing it would take psychotherapy, because they're prone to this behaviour not having any prospects/purpose in life.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#196

Post by kjfewhiruhgw » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 11:20 AM UTC

drawkbox wrote: post #31

Not a good idea at all, I am never for censorship and I think we are losing sight of why freedom of speech is important which is insane to me. It is good all these ideas are out there even if you don't agree with them. Shrouding them will only encourage it. Strict absolutist and authoritative law/parenting almost always leads to acting out, while passive law/parenting let's knowledge decide individual choice. Putting…

"Let them naturally learn it is bad themselves."

For those readers of such material who are rational critical thinkers, then yes they will see it as bad for themselves and it will leave a bad taste in their mouths, and it will also waste their time

For those with irrational hateful right-wing ideology, it will reinforce their existing miserable attitudes

I agree that censorship is bad. But all publications select their messages. For example, scientific publications don't publish articles on homeopathy or communication with the dead. Are they censoring such material ? Shouldn't they be committed to fair and balanced presentation of ideas ? Aren't they _biased_ towards genuine evidence-based science ?

The reason scientific publications select real science rather than crank bullshit, is that their readers are trying to get real work done, and they rely on peer-review to filter the shit

You have to filter-out the noise in any communication channel. The problem we have with FB & Twitter is that the low signal-to-noise ratio is impeding our decision-making processes

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#197

Post by masondixon » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 11:21 AM UTC

commenting wrote: post #130

grandalf wrote: post #47

Why does everyone think censorship is the answer? The idea that "evil" ideas pollute minds is the same reasoning that neocons have for why Islam must be stopped. It's bizarre and farfetched. Our values of free speech and free expression are far more important than the cringeworthy and extremely stupid things some people choose to say. Twitter should not ban these accounts, or should it ban ISIS accounts or anything e…

Twitter doesn't have to be a neo-Nazi propaganda platform if it deems that unacceptable. They should (and do) have the freedom and liberty to choose who uses their service.

> neo-Nazi propaganda

Can you give me a definition of this that can be consistently applied to all tweets?

The issue is that you can say something is "neo-Nazi propaganda" and it will shut down the discussion and publicly shame the person because the phrase is so powerful.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#198

Post by icu » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 11:22 AM UTC

The right to free speech is fundamental to a better society.

Ideally we have a free market of ideas fostered by tolerance and respect for different points views. Not being willing to expose yourself to different points of view creates ignorance.

Corporate censorship like this sends a signal that Twitter is not willing to be that communication platform for free speech.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#199

Post by throwanem » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 11:22 AM UTC

alistproducer2 wrote: post #150

prewett wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if you intended this meaning, but it sounds like you see (your) liberal view as the ultimately right one which will inevitably triumph in the end, its just bad tactics right now. I didn't notice this until after I got back to the US after some time in an authoritarian country, and I noticed that liberals had this similar authoritarianness of being unwilling to consider the merits of the other side, a fee…

>I noticed that liberals had this similar authoritarianness IMO this is what distinguishes a traditional liberal from a a progressive. For me, a liberal is basically libertarian with a belief the state can be used to ensure the rights of citizens are administered evenly. IMO, if someone's actions aren't depriving another of life or liberty, the state doesn't have much standing in regulating that activity. Progressive…

> Gay people getting married deprives no one of anything.

There's an opportunity cost. I expanded on that a few days ago, and rather than rehearse it again, I'll link the answer I gave to "What do anti-gay-marriage people gain?": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12933668

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#200

Post by masondixon » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 11:24 AM UTC

treebog wrote: post #58

Twitter has a huge harassment problem. This has serious implications for their business; as we saw the other week, Disney passed on acquiring them in part because of the harassment situation. This seems like a good and necessary move to strengthen their business by making their platform a more tolerable place to visit.

Why can't they just provide better filtering tools. You choose who you can follow. They should pull some of their ad-targeting tech to focus on filtering harassment.