Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions • Hacker News Board

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#101

Post by Reason077 » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 8:13 AM UTC

silon7 wrote: post #75

rimantas wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when automatic transmissions are consistently > outperforming humans at fuel efficiency What? So far each data sheet has shown higher fuel consumption for automatic vehicles.

It's only correct for modern automatic transmissions. Plus sometimes start/stop. Probably not for old "3 gear with torque converter" or similiar.

Modern manual cars have start/stop technology too.

However, it's more convoluted to use. You have to engage the clutch, put the shifter in neutral, and release the clutch again. Compared to automatic where you just have to hold your foot on the brake pedal.

Stop/start reduces fuel consumption on test cycles like NEDC for both automatics and manuals, but I'll bet in the real world the benefit is mostly seen with automatics as many manual drivers will rarely bother to use it.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#102

Post by vbezhenar » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 8:14 AM UTC

In my country (Kazakhstan, and Russia, AFAIK) manual transmissions are popular with cheap cars, where $500 is a huge difference for buyer. With more expensive cars manual transmission are extremely rare (only BMW have them, AFAIK). So it's basically a choice between cheap and expensive options.

I personally like manual transmission. It cheaper, it's not hard to use, it's significantly cheaper to repair, car with manual transmission could be towed or could tow another car, etc. So for me is a bit of convenience does not outweight drawbacks and extra cost.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#103

Post by flamedoge » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 8:14 AM UTC

sergiotapia wrote: post #40

Driving manual in heavy traffic is a pain in the ass. RIP your calves. I've driven manual in Bolivia since I learned how to drive, but when I moved back to the States I picked automatic because I would kill myself having to press the clutch every 40cm during heavy traffic. People have this romanticized view of manual driving, going through empty hills, warm sun beating on your raybans. In reality you'll be stuck in t…

It's physically weird. Manual drivers must have left leg bigger than right.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#104

Post by vmarsy » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 8:15 AM UTC

henrikschroder wrote: post #46

I got my driver's license in Sweden, and the official driving handbook completely worships manual transmissions, and makes several untrue claims about how much better they are than automatics. You can choose to do your road test in an automatic, but that'll earn you a restriction on your license, barring you from driving a manual. It's probably fair, but almost everyone (myself included) chooses to practice in manual…

>when automatic transmissions are consistently outperforming humans at fuel efficiency

Do you have data to back this up? Unless you're driving a dual clutch "dry" transmission or a CVT, because of Physics, an automatic transmission will always be less efficient. The Automatic transmission Torque converter [1] will waste some of the energy provided by the engine, especially with city driving.

Also, most automatic cars tend to shift gear up too early, and can't switch to gear n+2. Because of this, you spend more time accelerating to your cruise speed. It's well known that accelerating rather quickly to your cruise speed is the optimal strategy for fuel efficiency, hence the reason to switch from 3rd to 5th gear directly.

With a manual, you can also disengage the clutch when you consider it safe (and not slowing down traffic) and you know you're going to have to stop at the red light.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5G2zQ_3xTc

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#105

Post by darklajid » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 8:15 AM UTC

kriro wrote: post #88

I have a license for manual transmission as that's the default in Germany. My US license is expired now* but I only drove automatics there. I always thought it was curious that the default in the US is automatic and in most other countries I've been to it is manual...in fact there's an ego thing at play here, too. A lot of people in Germany think automatics are for people who can't drive properly. My next car will be…

Ego thing? Maybe, but for me it's more of a fun thing. I currently drive an automatic and would love to go back.

Random addendum: German licenses do expire for larger classes - I have a license for BCE (aka 'up to 40t/max') that expired a while ago. Legacy licenses in that class expire at the age of 60 I think, current licenses expire every 5 years from the day you got one.

And of course there's the whole public transportation license thing (cab, bus).

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#106

Post by gambiting » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 8:15 AM UTC

kweinber wrote: post #7

Manual shifting is neither possible nor even relevant in electric cars or cvt (continuous variable transmission) cars. Their rise will be the true end of the stick shift.

Why would it not be possible? An electric motor can be hooked up to a normal transmission without any problem - the thing is, that there's no real reason to do that, but it's definitely not impossible.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#107

Post by lqdc13 » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 8:15 AM UTC

manmal wrote: post #83

allendoerfer wrote: post #59

For me this is an emotional topic. I want everybody else to use it, but I myself do not want an electric car, an automatic car or a general speed limit. Arguing about stuff like this with (some) Germans is like arguing about guns with (some) Americans. Sure, there is a reasonable position, which is better for society. I don't care, don't take away my [insert toy here]!

How would it be better for society if everybody had automatic transmission?

I don't think the parent has the same idea, but from my personal experience, it is almost impossible to not break speed limits in a stick shift car.

Same is not true in my case for automatic. Better have other drivers be safe and eco conscious.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#108

Post by fazzone » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 8:16 AM UTC

henrikschroder wrote: post #46

I got my driver's license in Sweden, and the official driving handbook completely worships manual transmissions, and makes several untrue claims about how much better they are than automatics. You can choose to do your road test in an automatic, but that'll earn you a restriction on your license, barring you from driving a manual. It's probably fair, but almost everyone (myself included) chooses to practice in manual…

>gear-shift indicator in the dash.

My VW has this. It's useless, I never look at it. It is very simple and clearly intended only to give the best results on the controlled gas mileage testing - I believe that if a manual car has a gear-change indicator, the EPA test drivers are supposed to follow it. The advantage of a human selecting gears is that they can use more information than just the speed and engine rpm; for instance there is no point shifting into 6th gear if you see a big hill right in front of you. It also never indicates for the driver to skip a gear. Maybe you will save a few bucks on gas if you follow the indicator religiously but you'll probably break even after you have to replace your clutch early.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#109

Post by pmontra » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 8:17 AM UTC

In my experience automatic is ok if driving in city traffic or on a highway, much more comfortable than manual. On a highway one is always in 5th anyway, or driving stop and go in a traffic jam.

When I drive on some hill or mountain road, I feel safer on manual because I know how much the car can hold the road in a turn given the gear I'm using and the speed I'm carrying into the turn. With an automatic gear it usually feels like it's using a higher gear then it should, so I have to drive unnecessarily slower and use brakes more, which can't be good for them.

Anyway, cars with both sequential shifting and automatic transmission are becoming common so one can have both manual and automatic. If I have to buy a car again I'll go with something like that. Some high end cars have paddles on the steering wheel to shift gears up and down, like in Formula 1.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#110

Post by esturk » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 8:17 AM UTC

mrweasel wrote: post #55

esturk wrote: post #25

Another issue with manual transmission that others have not mentioned is the annoyance as a passenger. I can understand the joy for the driver but as a passenger, I always find it quite annoying in older cars. In fact, I would probably cancel my Lyft/Uber ride if I knew the coming car is a manual.

Unless you look at the driver changing gears, how would you even know that a car has a manual transmission?

You can hear the toggling of the stick.