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Don’t Mess with The Google

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Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#141

Post by fencepost »

moyta wrote: post #72
serge2k wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a sane world Google would get a swift and harsh judgement against them for this. Don't be evil. lol. Anyone remember the glory days of the first sale doctrine? Before we started letting companies essentially make arbitrary binding rules at their whim.

If anyone banned bothers to file a small claims case against Google, they could likely win. I've successfully won cases with significantly more grey area against well informed people in small claims, and Google would be compelled to send a company representative who is wholly unfamiliar with the law and what the case is about due to the way small claims court works. The most likely outcome is Google will settle well…

Ah, but have all involved basically signed away the right to sue through a mandatory arbitration clause in the user agreements?

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#142

Post by throwaway98237 »

kajecounterhack wrote: post #120

Disclaimer: I don't speak for Google and don't have any real context into why this occurred. Speaking as myself, a private citizen. I work in Spam & Abuse and it's possible that this is the result of some clustering algorithm that was trying to take down sharders / phone buying rings. It's very possible that the SWEs responsible didn't consider this possibility (that legitimate customers would be used to shard purcha…

If you watch an old tech talk re: Google disaster recovery topic, the Googler explains that a user's info is never fully deleted because it's too expensive to do so given back-up duplication is processed multiple times in multiple locations and sometimes over multiple technologies. In other words, cancel your google account today and your data may be "deleted" but it's really, as in actually really, still on magnetic back-up in several locations, but it's just really hard to get to and put back together, so is considered "gone". Unless you're a really big organization with the means to go to such troubles, like maybe the government or Google.

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#143

Post by hackits »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #53
hackits wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My response to Google deleting peoples email accounts. Google deletes artist’s blog, a decade of his work: This makes me laugh my ass off. This is a bit of a pet peeve I have with people and modern technology. They believe they have a right to use a service even though they're not paying for the usage of the service. Then they turn around shocked and angry when the free service is removed. `Why! why did they do this…

Someone losing a decade of work makes you laugh your ass off?

Yes, when a simple usb hard disk drive could of saved all his work.

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#145

Post by DavidWanjiru »

Is it legally enforceable for a company to dictate what you can or cannot do with a phone that you bought from them? Sure, the terms said whatever they said, but is it enforceable/constitutional? I mean, people sell their phones all the time for whatever reason.

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#146

Post by jdietrich »

xyzzy123 wrote: post #140
jdietrich wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is unreasonable. I think we've fallen into a culture of low expectations regarding the ability of "normal users". Many people will (perfectly legitimately) choose convenience over quality or reliability, but I think we should be pushing users to engage more seriously with the tools that they use. We can certainly do more as developers to make things easier, but I think we have a tendency to pander to…

For a whole variety of reasons, you need know what you're doing to properly host your own email now. From the risk of domain name takeover, to hosting provider takeover, to modern spam requirements (ip reputation, dkim, spf, dmarc), to just plain sysadmin ability and ideally run an HA system. Agree that there are probably some startup opportunities, but the the reality is that you'll just be transferring the user's t…

There are a whole spectrum of options between "running a mail server in your basement" and "having to reprint your business cards if your Google account is suspended".

We can make big steps towards trustworthiness and control in SaaS, it's just often orthogonal to profitability. Lock-in is the obvious example. Lots of vendors expend huge efforts to simplify data ingress, but create arbitrary obstacles to data egress. We worry about SaaS providers going bust because we're inured to the idea that getting your data back is really difficult. The interests of the user do not align with the interests of the vendor. Predatory practices are so normal that we've half-forgotten that they're predatory.

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#147

Post by p2t2p »

That is exactly why I transferred my email to paid fastmail account. That is why I'm gradually resigning from usage of any Google services except search. That is why I'll never ever buy anything from google.

I had figured out everything when they closed Google Reader. I understood that they give no flying whatever about their users.

Because you, people, are not their customers. You are their commodity and advertisers are their customers. So yeah, don't mess with your owner.

update: spelling

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#148

Post by chj »

brongondwana wrote: post #75
a3n wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fastmail. I'm just a regular (paying) customer, not a business or anything. I've opened a small number of tickets, one or two of the RTFM variety. I've always got a human response and satisfaction, even a "here, let me RTFM that for you." I can't imagine being locked out of my fastmail account for anything other than abuse of my fastmail account . Or not paying my bill.

We also stalk you on... I mean, we read the same tech news sites you do. (I'm on third line ticket duty right now, so if you have something significantly more complex than RTFM, or an actual bug, you'll probably be talking to me this week) The most common cause of getting locked out other than you abusing your fastmail account is having your credentials stolen and used for spam/fraud, which is why we recommend 2 fact…

Here is another fastmail customer. Just curious how do you confirm identity? I don't remember setting a backup email.

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#149

Post by ocdtrekkie »

mistermann wrote: post #135
ubernostrum wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very possible that the SWEs responsible didn't consider this possibility "Very possible"? More like "guaranteed". Everybody who pays the slightest bit of attention knows Google has a gigantic blind spot when it comes to thinking through the consequences of algorithms and automation. And there's no sign that the company is interested in fixing that, ever.

Wait until they get into the thought police business for some real interesting situations. All jokes aside, for those who remember, it's pretty amazing what Microsoft got punished for ( bundling a browser with the OS, with no other restrictions) compared to what Apple and Google get away with.

It's amazing what owning the FTC can do. Obama appointee Joshua Wright was a paid Google shill... and Trump just picked him up for the FTC transition team. Google's ability to infect our justice system transcends partisan politics.

Re: Don’t Mess with The Google

#150

Post by sundvor »

brongondwana wrote: post #75
a3n wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fastmail. I'm just a regular (paying) customer, not a business or anything. I've opened a small number of tickets, one or two of the RTFM variety. I've always got a human response and satisfaction, even a "here, let me RTFM that for you." I can't imagine being locked out of my fastmail account for anything other than abuse of my fastmail account . Or not paying my bill.

We also stalk you on... I mean, we read the same tech news sites you do. (I'm on third line ticket duty right now, so if you have something significantly more complex than RTFM, or an actual bug, you'll probably be talking to me this week) The most common cause of getting locked out other than you abusing your fastmail account is having your credentials stolen and used for spam/fraud, which is why we recommend 2 fact…

Nice. :) Reading this in the context of this thread made me setup my own trial account, with a new domain name. As soon as those MX records propagate, I'll be good to test it for a while.

Wish you had a dark theme, that'd be my only feedback for now (Stylish also works). Appears to be very fast, but of course, my account is 100% empty.

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