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Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

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Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#91
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Black Lives Matter means Black Lives Matter as well . The All Lives Matter movement, as a reaction to BLM, is essentially saying that they don't, and that the racial struggles of American Blacks are irrelevant. That is the reason why All Lives Matter is considered abusive.

> The All Lives Matter movement, as a reaction to BLM, is essentially saying that they don't That's not what "all" means. It's turning the name of the movement by implying it means "only" Black Lives Matter. So All Lives Matter is saying that not only Black Lives Matter.

Only if you take the literal interpretation of the words, rather than the connotation and context that I explained in my comment.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#92

Good riddance. Twitter shouldn't let itself be a recruiting platform for neo-Nazis and their ilk. This is consistent with the ban on ISIS propaganda accounts, which was also a positive step towards combatting online extremism.

Are the banned "alt-right" commentators commensurate with ISIS propagandists? If so, how much else ought to be banned? Black power groups? Anti-fascist groups? Many "social justice" accounts post anti-white, anti-male messages with impunity. Should we then paint all people concerned with social justice with the same brush?

Were the literal 1930s Nazis comparable to ISIS propagandists? If not, then why not? What about modern Neo-Nazis, are they really better? Why?

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#93

Good riddance. Twitter shouldn't let itself be a recruiting platform for neo-Nazis and their ilk. This is consistent with the ban on ISIS propaganda accounts, which was also a positive step towards combatting online extremism.

Are the banned "alt-right" commentators commensurate with ISIS propagandists? If so, how much else ought to be banned? Black power groups? Anti-fascist groups? Many "social justice" accounts post anti-white, anti-male messages with impunity. Should we then paint all people concerned with social justice with the same brush?

[deleted]

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Am I to understand that suggesting Trump voters kill themselves is acceptable? I have no idea how you would've come to that conclusion, I certainly don't think it and didn't imply it. Is this really the game we're playing? Really? I have to go find three tweets of Trump supporters telling HRC supporters to kill themselves? Do you really think that can't be trivially found?

"And to every black person that voted for Trump as a joke. Malcolm X should kick ur ass. You are not my nigga anymore. Kill yourself" https://twitter.com/h0elooks/status/796337658549202945 " Please kill yourself racist piece of shit " (seconds ago as of time of writing) https://twitter.com/braaaaiiinnns/status/799113146602573825 5-6, actually. Go ahead, I'll wait. Yes, I really think you can't find that, unless we're…

This is the most asinine, childish conversation I've ever participated in, but here's what 50 seconds of effort got me:

https://twitter.com/LK4Csjsharks20/status/795128062941675520

https://twitter.com/Sundance_44/status/794595588822155264

https://twitter.com/gr1zzly/status/794184499491782657

https://twitter.com/WYLTK13/status/798922065399070720

https://twitter.com/Wolf_Gang_Tears/status/79871237999133081...

https://twitter.com/TonyTehTowel/status/797860571882389504

I won't replying in this thread again. Whatever point you're trying to make, you're doing a poor job of it.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#95
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people find the "ideas that powered the NSDAP" quite disgusting. If we are truly building a society of tolerance, whether or not one has a visceral reaction to an idea should not stop whether or not one can discuss and debate it. I'm not a neo-Nazi, but I've talked at length with them about their views. I will give anyone a few minutes to explain what they are about, try to listen to it neutrally, and form my…

Sure, but not everyone enjoys spending their time engaging with Nazi rhetoric. There are plenty of places outside of Twitter where you can actually choose whether or not to have a discussion.

Let's look at it another way. Ban all hate groups, or don't ban any of them. However, don't pick and choose.

I don't agree with Neo Nazis. I hold Neo Nazis with the same contempt that I hold feminists. Why not apply the policy for all hate groups?

For example, in Australia we refuse to acknowledge the approximately 25% of violence and abuse by females within the household. The worst case statistic is NSW ("Twice as many female victims (19,488) as male victims (9,261) in New South Wales."). Not one of these victims is given a voice! http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/...

Also check http://www.oneinthree.com.au/

You will see that men who are victims of domestic violence are turned away from support groups. This doesn't surprise me as there is an aggressive campaign to ignore male victims from media, government and community support groups.

I conducted a Google search from 2015 to determine that 100% of references in the Australian media stated that domestic violence was a "male only" behaviour and the only victims represented were female. I checked over 2000 references! In other words, 2000 of 2000 references represented one gender with relation to violence.

If you listen to Cassie Jaye (the feminist who created the documentary The Red Pill), she says that feminists in media refuse to acknowledge male victims because it will take money away from female victims. In other words, if you are a boy or a man who is beaten or abused, feminists insist males get no representation or support. It's almost a complete media kibosh throughout the western world. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itSTzV29bS0

So, why is Twitter not banning prominent feminists? or, why isn't Twitter banning all media outlets who support such hateful messages that insist that some victims of violence should be ignored? This is a fundamental breach of human rights! You can't get much worse!

Check media references for an absence of any of the following, 80% of suicide victims are male 25% of domestic violence is by a female 90% of incarceration is male

You will also notice that Cassie Jaye said she was suppressed by feminists. Cassie also said that she was advised by feminists not to represent any issues that impact men. This would explain the media suppression across all western countries.

If you're going to ban a hate group, why not include feminism. It's certainly one of the biggest and most active groups today and actively violates human rights. I've given plenty of pointers in this single post alone to build evidence.

There is almost universal silence from the overwhelming majority of feminists on this topic. It's a sad indictement of the overwhelming majority of the feminist movement. Check media, documentaries from 2016, support groups, even discussion forums. The message is consistent and it consistently breaches human rights.

So, should Twitter ban hate groups? If you really must silence hate groups, then ban them all. And like you, I dislike spending so much of my time fighting hate groups like feminism because there is no impartiality on the topic. How extreme do you need to get before people will speak up?

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#96
post #38

I'm not a fan of the "alt-right" or a lot of its subculture. I also don't find it particularly "alt", as much as it is "far" right. It is a lot of the ideas that powered the NSDAP enveloped in the language of the Internet and memes, with the targets broadened from Jewry to non-whites in general. However, I'm also not a fan of suspending these accounts for controversial views if they are not harassing people on the Tw…

Agree. The first thing I thought upon reading this was: would Twitter ban an account with the following description: "dedicated to the heritage, identity, and future of people of African descent in the United States, and around the world." Undoubtedly not. The only difference, of course, is s/African/European/g. I'm a liberal, but I feel that if this election has taught us anything, it should be that suppression of "…

I agree with your broader point that suppression of viewpoints in the marketplace of ideas is a bad idea, but I strongly disagree with the idea that Twitter is inconsistent for treating compositionally identical sentences differently.

For example, if you substitute "Swedish" or "German" or something more specific than "European," you get something that doesn't set off alarm bells, just as with "African" (or "Eritrean" or "Egyptian" - although you might set off alarm bells with "Hutu" or "Tutsi.") Why?

I would wager at reasonable odds that a randomly selected American organization promoting the "heritage, identity, and future of people of European descent" will actually have an agenda dedicated to marginalizing or removing "undesirable" elements of the population (they will have an explicitly racist agenda, and support - if not directly participate in - hateful, illegal behavior).

I would take the opposite side of that bet for the corresponding group with "African" or "Irish" substituted in.

Words and symbols need to be understood against the cultural backdrop in which they appear. It means a very different thing to fly a giant national flag in the United States vs. in Germany (during anything other than a soccer match). The composition of a sentence is not sufficient to derive its significance, or its level of moral acceptability.

And of course, it's perfectly conceivable to have a non-racist group in America with the description you provided. It almost certainly has happened. It's just not what actually happens in the real world most of the time, for "lots of reasons."

It's uncomfortable to get down in the muck and deal with ambiguity and complexity. Evaluating whether or not a statement or group or personality is racist and worthy of approbation is generally really difficult. That doesn't mean it's impossible, especially at the extremes, and especially if you're willing to tolerate a false-positive rate.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#97

Why does everyone think censorship is the answer? The idea that "evil" ideas pollute minds is the same reasoning that neocons have for why Islam must be stopped. It's bizarre and farfetched. Our values of free speech and free expression are far more important than the cringeworthy and extremely stupid things some people choose to say. Twitter should not ban these accounts, or should it ban ISIS accounts or anything e…

Indeed. Turn the spotlight of publicity onto what people, be they good or bad, have to say. Turn a platform into a "safe space" and pretty soon any kind of criticism will be interpreted as harassment. This will deny users a powerful means of making progress. So ultimately it becomes an unsafe space.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#98
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I think there is most definitely a boundary between people with different opinions and people with opinions that are fundamentally at odds with living in a civilized society. "I don't like Goldman Sachs" is an opinion you can debate on its merits. "Kill all the Jew bankers" is not. The boundary is somewhere in between those two. I can't speak to the particular accounts banned by Twitter, but the alt right…

> I think there is most definitely a boundary between people with different opinions and people with opinions that are fundamentally at odds with living in a civilized society. In this statement, you are unilaterally making a rule as to what ideals are OK to hold as part of "civilized society", and where the boundary is. Stating your society is more "civilized" than another is an opinion in and of itself, and arguabl…

I didn't decide where it is, I'm just saying it's definitely there.

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And to every black person that voted for Trump as a joke. Malcolm X should kick ur ass. You are not my nigga anymore. Kill yourself" https://twitter.com/h0elooks/status/796337658549202945 " Please kill yourself racist piece of shit " (seconds ago as of time of writing) https://twitter.com/braaaaiiinnns/status/799113146602573825 5-6, actually. Go ahead, I'll wait. Yes, I really think you can't find that, unless we're…

This is the most asinine, childish conversation I've ever participated in, but here's what 50 seconds of effort got me: https://twitter.com/LK4Csjsharks20/status/795128062941675520 https://twitter.com/Sundance_44/status/794595588822155264 https://twitter.com/gr1zzly/status/794184499491782657 https://twitter.com/WYLTK13/status/798922065399070720 https://twitter.com/Wolf_Gang_Tears/status/79871237999133081... https://t…

So yeah, we are getting different results. Just looking at your top 3, I don't even see those posters in the list. I'm not blocked by them or anything, since your links work for me when logged in.

Filter bubble shenanigans?

There is no need whatsoever for these theatrics over a simple disagreement, for crying out loud. If I had my druthers, the owners of every single tweet linked in this thread, yours as well, would be banned from Twitter, if not brought up on harassment charges.

You will note that I said Twitter has no issues with those with leftist political leanings telling others to kill themselves. That statement is still true, but misleading in the light of what you linked here. Twitter apparently has no issue with anyone telling others to kill themselves.

And people wonder why their stock price is falling off a cliff...

Re: Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts

#100
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good trolling sir. You had me going for a moment. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zT09Dy13slc/T3CInkRWjRI/AAAAAAAABI...

Where I live a lot of kids have been arrested and imprisoned for that salute. It so strange as an American expat living under a military dictatorship where any improper speech is harshly dealt with to see American slowly but steadily moving in the same direction. What's weird is it's starting with restrictions on speech in the private sector and education. I'm wondering how long before laws and the courts get behind…

Not long friend. Our campuses reflect a growing antipathy toward free speech.[1] Whatever starts there usually ends up in the courts.

I've become convinced that the American left is now totally post liberal, in the sense that they consider classical liberalism -- à la John Stuart Mill -- highly offensive.

1.) https://www.thefire.org/spotlight-on-speech-codes-2016/

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