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On Geeks and Gays

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101–110 of 232 posts

Re: On Geeks and Gays

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 parent is still better than 0.

I'm thinking mostly from the POV of if we had more adopting families than orphans, which I know isn't actually the case.

It's not blanket-true that there are more adopting families than orphans. For healthy Caucasian newborns, demand outstrips supply by factors of 100 or more. For HIV+ African-American 13-year-olds, adoption is basically never going to happen.

Re: On Geeks and Gays

#102
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically enough, a homophobic friend told me about the theory that homosexuality is misogyny e.g. some men are homosexual because they dislike women and don't want to associate with them. Interestingly enough, I'm pretty sure my comment will shock more people than your comment--even though both comments posit some sort of handwavy unsubstantiated psychological theory nakedly constructed to fit some sort of politica…

I don't think that's quite fair. The parent simply offered up a possible explanation for what is by all accounts an irrational fear.

That's fine if you take the word "homophobia" at face value, but it's become a politically overloaded term, and it's not right to accuse people of mental illness just because they disagree with you.

Re: On Geeks and Gays

#103
post #97
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Magical quality? Well, 2 genders instead of one. I don't find the idea that children take their cues depending on the gender of the parent at all unreasonable. It's certainly entered the common mind as an idea of what happens. Is it true? No idea, haven't seen any research on it. But there's at least a possible basis for the "magical" quality of gender being important.

I'm skeptical. What cues? Are you thinking a girl learns how she should act by emulating a mom, and the same for a boy in relation to his dad?

Here's the logic of a non-homophobic argument I have heard of. The majority of research on parenting and raising children has been done with heterosexual parents as a base assumption. Someone who is extremely supportive of gay rights who is also a rational thinker might be cautious when considering the issue of adoption by homosexuals. Why be cautious? Because it is necessary to take reasonable measures to guarantee the children will be raised appropriately. It is a human right of the children. In American society we place an especially high value on protecting the rights of people who cannot defend themselves, including children and the disenfranchised. Yes, homosexuals are a disenfranchised group as well, but there are homosexuals who serve openly in Congress. It's not quite on the same level as children, who do not yet have the ability to speak English.

I'm not up to date on the literature regarding child development. It may be that there are studies that suggest that homosexual families are no different than heterosexual families in terms of impact on the child. I'm just throwing this argument out there because it is one of the few non-homophobic arguments against homosexual adoption that I know of. I don't personally have an opinion on this issue because I'm not qualified.

Re: On Geeks and Gays

#104
post #91
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not hard to argue that it's good for a child to have a mom and a dad. The APA's official stance (one borne out by my personal experience with gay families) is that there is no difference in the well-being of children raised by two same-sex parents or two opposite-sex parents. "...the results of existing research comparing lesbian and gay parents to heterosexual parents and children of lesbian and gay parents to…

See, the thing is, both replies jumped directly on the point I was trying not to make. I wasn't answering with my belief, nor was I saying that gay parents are worse, but trying to get at where the root of apprehension might lie with liberal-minded folks, such as the case was in the article. What I was trying to say is that such a belief is fairly prevalent and well short of nutjobbery.

Ah, I gotcha. I do agree with the rest of your reasoning.

I've had this debate before (strangely enough, at a faith-based LGBT family meeting with leaders of the Willow Creek megachurch in Chicago), and that particular point has been a sore sticking point. In its weak form (as you've presented) it does nothing to address the matter of LGBT parents, and in its strong form (gay parents are worse), it contradicts pretty much all available evidence.

Re: On Geeks and Gays

#105
post #92
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I agree with you that Turing's death was an incredible loss, I wouldn't be so sure he would have died a natural death. Turing had considered suicide before, during his failed work on the Riemann hypothesis. At that time, he schemed up a suicide mechanism involving an apple and electrical wiring which he described in a letter to an old boyfriend. Turing was pretty eccentric, romanticized suicide (and was a li…

He uh... also tried to poison his PhD advisor.

You aren't thinking of Oppenheimer?

Re: On Geeks and Gays

#107
post #92
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I agree with you that Turing's death was an incredible loss, I wouldn't be so sure he would have died a natural death. Turing had considered suicide before, during his failed work on the Riemann hypothesis. At that time, he schemed up a suicide mechanism involving an apple and electrical wiring which he described in a letter to an old boyfriend. Turing was pretty eccentric, romanticized suicide (and was a li…

He uh... also tried to poison his PhD advisor.

Hopefully someone will fix this misinformation soon, and gaddammit dude, when you're going to accuse someone of attempted murder, do a little fact check and send along a reference link or something for crissakkes

Re: On Geeks and Gays

#108
post #103
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm skeptical. What cues? Are you thinking a girl learns how she should act by emulating a mom, and the same for a boy in relation to his dad?

Here's the logic of a non-homophobic argument I have heard of. The majority of research on parenting and raising children has been done with heterosexual parents as a base assumption. Someone who is extremely supportive of gay rights who is also a rational thinker might be cautious when considering the issue of adoption by homosexuals. Why be cautious? Because it is necessary to take reasonable measures to guarantee…

So, if i get a surrogate and we have a child, and my gay partner wants to adopt the baby so that we are both legal parents, surely it make no sense to deny the adoption?

Re: On Geeks and Gays

#109
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Murderers and pedophiles are okay then? No? So all doesn't mean all, but some subset of all.

Saying that all people are created equally does not mean that all people are free from error or consequence.

Right, what about those who claim being homosexual is a choice? To blur the line more, what about killers who are insane?

Re: On Geeks and Gays

#110
post #85
post #54

A thought: Alan Turing died when he was 41. Anything Turing would have invented between 41 and his natural death are things lost to society because of the persecution of homosexuals. What an incredible cost.

What if he'd just been an ordinary guy? I think the damage to his life and the lives of those who knew him is more important than what he would have invented.

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