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Re: undefined

#151

Post by cmdrfred »

nitrogen wrote: post #125
cmdrfred wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like there is more to this. Can't you just show them the bill of sale?

This is a common reply to any complaint about an authority. "I feel like there is more to this" is not a very charitable interpretation of a claim, and is basically invoking the just world fallacy. I don't know anything about the OP's case, but in general ignoring the negative experiences of others is kind of what resulted in both the BLM movement and Trump's election. As a society, we really need to work on taking p…

I didn't end on that point though. I am seeking clarification. If the answer is "I don't have a bill of sale, I said I sold it for $500 bucks to get around paying taxes on it" then this story seems a little more reasonable. If you accept all complaints about a individual or institution as gospel Donald Trump and Bill Clinton are both serial rapist pedophiles and Hillary Clinton is a reptile creature from the 19th moon of Zlarg.

Re: undefined

#152

Post by aetherson »

Bartweiss wrote: post #88
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds of the strategies freemium devs employ where they do their best to snare "whales" who are players who will causally drop thousands of dollars on various in-game powerups and skins. There was a report a few months ago claiming these players are responsible for 70% of an app's revenue! I imagine its similar for casinos, so they have no real incentive to actually stop addiction as addicts are their revenue gener…

Absolutely the case, though casinos don't have quite the same incentives. Freemium devs can't fly in wealthy players and customize their games, for instance. But this absolutely explains a lot of these things. For a while, I wondered why freemium games don't offer an "unlock all" option for $2, or $10, or $100? Turns out, it's because even $100 would be a massive loss compared to what the 'top' players sink into Cand…

That factoid about the heaviest drinking 10% is probably wrong, by the way.

Basically, it comes out of survey data about how much alcohol people consume. But when you take the actual results from the survey and multiply it by the population of the US, you only get about half as much alcohol consumption as there are sales of alcohol.

So the guy who ran the survey just multiplied all the numbers by two. People who said they had 5 drinks per night, he assumes they have 10 drinks per night. In contrast, the people who said they have 1 drink per month, he assumes 2 drinks per month.

That's pretty dubious. It seems like it's a LOT more plausible that if you have 3 drinks per month, you'd report just one, than if you report 5 drinks per night, actually you take 10.

Reference: http://vinepair.com/booze-news/10-americans-consume-10-drink...

Re: undefined

#153

Post by appleflaxen »

tunap wrote: post #69
jfoutz wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

funny thing about addiction. I agree that in the beginning it's a choice. But i think every event biases the choice a little bit. So, if it's go to the movies or go gambling, the first time around it's a 50/50 split. then next time around it's a 40/60 split, the next time around 20/80 split. Clearly the rate of bias modification curves vary from person to person. That, in and of itself isn't bad, nothing wrong with a…

Good thing toothpaste isn't addictive... hope the Crest folk aren't reading this. Very good point, though. I was lucky, I had several positive experiences in a short time period and could rationalize my decision to desist. I have failed repeatedly to mirror that experience with my other addictions, cigs and sex. * * More so than just getting a lot, I was missing work, foregoing important events and losing sleep to en…

i think the difference is that gambling directly activates the dopamine centers in the brain. to the extent that they discuss this during work meetings to make them more addictive. when you center your work discussions on how to make something more addictive, you are dealing with something that can cause addiction. i guarantee you that nobody in the crest plant has ever had a discussion like this.

Re: undefined

#154

Post by downandout »

Tistel wrote: post #149

My first job out of Uni was making "games" for slot machines. My soul is forever damaged (not joking). I have horror stories over how much thought goes into the "design." In a given jurisdiction (State/Province/County) there will be rules about the payout percentage. Anywhere from 90 to 98%. So lets assume 95% percent payout. In the long run, you give me a dollar, I give you back $0.95. Most of the time its zero, som…

Most of the slots these days are just cabinets with touchscreen LCDs, a bill changer, a player's card reader, and a computer running software. Of course it's evil, but I'm surprised they aren't split testing the reward frequencies, and then having the software adjust automatically to the one that generates the most total action for the game. That way they wouldn't have to ripoff other manufacturers' games when they start doing well....all the games would be optimized over time for maximum appeal/profit/addiction.

Re: undefined

#155

Post by r00fus »

Bartweiss wrote: post #88
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds of the strategies freemium devs employ where they do their best to snare "whales" who are players who will causally drop thousands of dollars on various in-game powerups and skins. There was a report a few months ago claiming these players are responsible for 70% of an app's revenue! I imagine its similar for casinos, so they have no real incentive to actually stop addiction as addicts are their revenue gener…

Absolutely the case, though casinos don't have quite the same incentives. Freemium devs can't fly in wealthy players and customize their games, for instance. But this absolutely explains a lot of these things. For a while, I wondered why freemium games don't offer an "unlock all" option for $2, or $10, or $100? Turns out, it's because even $100 would be a massive loss compared to what the 'top' players sink into Cand…

Do most capitalistic ventures rely on whales? Or is it limited only to ones that feed off addictions?

Re: undefined

#156

Post by r00fus »

Forbo wrote: post #72
pavel_lishin wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely don't understand the draw of slot machines. I watched a woman playing a smartphone version on the subway; for three stops, she just kept hitting the "spin" button and watching the results. I admit to not knowing how they work, but do they typically have any more interaction than "pull lever, sporadically receive reward"?

Change that to opening a box of boosters. Same thing. "Open package, sporadically receive reward."

Except, you have something (of debatable value but) tangible for your efforts. In some cases, the market value is clearly greater than your inputs.

I also fondly remember booster pack draft games - very fun and the "in" price is completely worth the time spent.

Slots give you exactly nothing except an empty wallet in most cases. At least if you play poker or blackjack you can interact with other humans...

Re: undefined

#158

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

Tistel wrote: post #149

My first job out of Uni was making "games" for slot machines. My soul is forever damaged (not joking). I have horror stories over how much thought goes into the "design." In a given jurisdiction (State/Province/County) there will be rules about the payout percentage. Anywhere from 90 to 98%. So lets assume 95% percent payout. In the long run, you give me a dollar, I give you back $0.95. Most of the time its zero, som…

I wonder to what extent the "magic reward frequency" happens to correlate with market movements.

Re: undefined

#159

Post by choward »

> Or was he the victim—as the suit alleged—of a system carefully calibrated to prey upon his weakness, one that robbed him of his money, his hope, and ultimately his life

Isn't this all businesses in a capitalist system? Try to get as money as you can from people legally.

Re: undefined

#160

Post by fastbetshenry »

Here is my proposal to eliminate problem gambling forever: scrap all laws restricting gambling. I know this might sound surprising (ok possibly crazy) but hear me on...

Today it is extremely expensive to open a casino. I'm not sure what the laws for offline casino are, but license costs for a new online casino are 100s of 1000s to millions USD per year. Subsequently there are very few companies that compete in this space -> there is artificially limited supply -> the price for gambling is high. The price for gambling is the players average loss per bet (called the house edge). It varies from a few % to over 10% for most casino games. It's what makes the gambler loose in the long run.

Say online gambling were legal in the US. There would be way way more online casinos competing for the player. This competition would drive down the house edge to either very close to or actually 0. A 0% house edge would do away with problem gambling. Gambling addicts make 1000s of bets per day, and the law of big numbers dictates that they would not loose money over the long run. This does not even factor in that online casinos would be VC funded, and would not need to make a profit for a long time, which would drive down the price even further.

This isn't just a lofty libertarian theory. The bitcoin gambling market is largely deregulated and the house edge in bitcoin casinos is way lower (1% - 0.1%) than for regulated casinos. Recall that regulated casinos have to somehow pay huge licensing costs to the state, that's money that their players have to loose.

Long story short, it is my conviction that online gambling laws are what make gambling addicts loose money (and much more, see article). Do away with the regulation and the market forces will lead to a state where gambling addicts do not loose any more money.

(full disclosure: I run a bitcoin casino)

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