Email Markup in Gmail • Hacker News Board

Re: Email Markup in Gmail

#81

Post by matt4077 » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:02 AM UTC

jimktrains2 wrote: post #41

quink wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name another way of invisibly embedding a JSON object in HTML in every browser without requiring CSS.

It wouldn't be JSON, but semantic markup would be another option. (Not that I agree with the GP here, just saying.)

They do support Microdata as an alternative: https://developers.google.com/gmail/markup/reference/formats...

That allows markup for the regular html part of the mail to double as structured data for automation. I can't really decide what I prefer – this allows deduplication but gets complicated when the presentation doesn't follow the exact structure of the object you want to describe.

Re: Email Markup in Gmail

#82

Post by niftich » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:04 AM UTC

erikpukinskis wrote: post #60

beefsack wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only "open" in that they detail the spec they've come up with. Email has been so useful and resilient only because it's an open standard which is broadly agreed on and adopted. Once the big players start adding custom features on top of existing protocols we start seeing fragmentation and parts of the market being cornered off. Once people start depending on this custom functionality, the vendor usually starts r…

You're talking about some kind of neoliberal openness, where open means "the big players agreed to it and it conforms to political ideas about structure". That's not my definition of open. My definition open is you can access the spec for free without limitation, and use, modify, and redistribute it as you see fit. If I am feeling grandiose I will concede that openness requires not just access, but easy access and us…

> where open means "the big players agreed to it and it conforms to political ideas about structure"

That's not the 'open' part. That's the 'standard' part, where a broad consensus of all stakeholders is what ensures that it's not a mere thought experiment that lacks adoption.

Re: Email Markup in Gmail

#83

Post by andrewguenther » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:08 AM UTC

callmeed wrote: post #65

Feels like this will get (over|ab)used by the same people who have already done it with email newsletters and promotions. I google search for "birthday gift for mom" and now some retailer who has already emailed me a similar promotion will get that in the top of my search results? Meh.

That's absolutely not how this works. You can't just add a card to an arbitrary search term. There are only four such schemas supported (event, flight, hotel, and restaurant confirmations).

https://developers.google.com/schemas/search/answers

Re: Email Markup in Gmail

#84

Post by andrewguenther » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:12 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #46

nilved wrote: post #8

This is a bad thing. Gmail needs to be e-mail and nothing more or this is EEE.

I totally agree. Besides, what is wrong with HTML? And why doesn't it render properly in the gmail client?

Ironically, they did it to make it easier for other vendors to support. (Some) HTML renders just fine in Gmail, but not other clients.

Re: Email Markup in Gmail

#85

Post by andrewguenther » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:16 AM UTC

beefsack wrote: post #48

matt4077 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can email not evolve? Structured data in markup works well on the web. It's open and could be implemented by any client.

It's only "open" in that they detail the spec they've come up with. Email has been so useful and resilient only because it's an open standard which is broadly agreed on and adopted. Once the big players start adding custom features on top of existing protocols we start seeing fragmentation and parts of the market being cornered off. Once people start depending on this custom functionality, the vendor usually starts r…

"Once the big players start adding custom features on top of existing protocols we start seeing fragmentation and parts of the market being cornered off."

This is how innovation happens. If the experiment shows promise, it gains adoption by other vendors. This is basically how every browser advancement in the last 10 years (or more) has come around.

Re: Email Markup in Gmail

#86

Post by brazzledazzle » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:26 AM UTC

leesalminen wrote: post #5

TimWolla wrote: post #2

Note that this only is available to high volume senders ( https://developers.google.com/gmail/markup/registering-with-... ): > Consistent history of sending a high volume of mail from your domain (order of hundred emails a day minimum to Gmail) for a few weeks at least.

I'm disappointed this restriction is still in place (though I understand _why_). My SaaS sends emails on behalf of our customers (using their From address). Individually they don't send 100 email per day to Gmail, but in aggregate our platform does.

How do you send it on their behalf, the on-behalf-of header or do you relay through their SMTP servers with their credentials?

Re: Email Markup in Gmail

#87

Post by erikpukinskis » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:26 AM UTC

huac wrote: post #69

erikpukinskis wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about some kind of neoliberal openness, where open means "the big players agreed to it and it conforms to political ideas about structure". That's not my definition of open. My definition open is you can access the spec for free without limitation, and use, modify, and redistribute it as you see fit. If I am feeling grandiose I will concede that openness requires not just access, but easy access and us…

How could you modify this schema and expect it to work with the other players?

The same way Google could modify the schema and expect it to work with old clients: graceful fallback.

Re: Email Markup in Gmail

#88

Post by brazzledazzle » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:37 AM UTC

deno wrote: post #44

quink wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name another way of invisibly embedding a JSON object in HTML in every browser without requiring CSS.

Since you asked, one option would be to simply include it as an alternative part in the MIME message (which email is). In fact, I would argue, that’s the correct option.

Probably would be the correct option but wouldn't some mail clients interpret that as a weird attachment?

Re: Email Markup in Gmail

#89

Post by pritambaral » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:40 AM UTC

HappyTypist wrote: post #62

arjie wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, this has been available for a while so I actually didn't realize this was a new announcement. I was hoping the registration would be less strict if you're only sending within your own domain, but this is good enough really.

It is. You don't need to register if you are sending from your own domain to your own domain.

From what I read, it's to your own mailbox, not domain. "x@gmail.com" was the example used.

Re: Email Markup in Gmail

#90

Post by cbr » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:52 AM UTC

candiodari wrote: post #70

matt4077 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the web interface, no. But you're free to use any client with GPG support – the beauty of open standards. There should also be browser plugins that add it to the web interface.

I wonder ... can you use javascript in HTML email ? Why not just include a PGP client ? You'd still need your key but why not make a standard for that ?

JS isn't allowed in email.

(JS crypto also has issues.)