Snowden: Stop Relying on Facebook for Your News • Hacker News Board

Re: Snowden: Stop Relying on Facebook for Your News

#61

Post by nogbit » Wed, Nov 16, 2016, 11:40 PM UTC

havetocharge wrote: post #39

canistr wrote: post #21

If the problem is that Facebook provides an echo-chamber that exacerbates the influence of one particular viewpoint, wouldn't the solution be for Facebook to begin injecting opposing content directly into the newsfeed? You can kind of see this with trending topics. If you don't follow a particular topic but suddenly see it trending in your feed, there's a chance you may random walk into clicking it. If Facebook opens…

It's not the Facebook that provides echo chamber, it's the individuals themselves who create it via their friend selections.

And reinforced with advertising algorithms which keeps everyone at FB employed, it is a FB problem as it is now the Fast Food of news...very unhealthy.

Re: Snowden: Stop Relying on Facebook for Your News

#62

Post by m_mueller » Wed, Nov 16, 2016, 11:40 PM UTC

fixxer wrote: post #49

zanny wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its impossible to happen under the system as it is established, but you just needed to push for a constitutional amendment and / or state compact like the one to overturn the electoral college to change the voting system to support either proportional (doesn't work when you elect a single seat like the president) or STV (ie runoff voting). The chance of that happening in the next four years? Really low. About as unli…

Changing from electoral college to pop vote also means the nature of campaigning will change. California, for example, has a huge population of Republicans and now their vote would matter. I don't think Trump did any non military focused rallies there. I am in Illinois. I didn't vote in 2008 or 2012 because I knew my vote would have no impact. Give me a popular vote and you might have Romney... Be careful what you wi…

Wouldn't Romney in 2012 have been better if it avoided Trump 2016?

Re: Snowden: Stop Relying on Facebook for Your News

#63

Post by fokov » Wed, Nov 16, 2016, 11:41 PM UTC

mzw_mzw wrote: post #44

woodchuck64 wrote: post #29

One thing's for certain: Facebook AI research is running deep-layered natural-language ANNs right now on a year of election comments and likes. I think well before four years they'll know exactly how to detect bubbles of alternate political reality and also how to break them up. There will be some interesting decisions facing them before the next election.

Do you trust them to break up all the alternate reality bubbles, or just the ones they don't like? What's truly dangerous here is that one organization has so much control over what news people see.

Is this really different than TV news? Most people stick to one network (Fox news, NBC, CNN, etc) and not only do they not watch the others but believe they are corrupt, fixed, and lying.

The problem is we don't have multiple major news organizations per major area like we used to. Back then there was bias, but it was easier to be called out on it. Now I think many people are fine living in the bubble.

Re: Snowden: Stop Relying on Facebook for Your News

#64

Post by anigbrowl » Wed, Nov 16, 2016, 11:41 PM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #7

electic wrote: post #6

This might not be possible. People who actually swapped feeds with someone who had a different viewpoint decided they did "not like the news" because it didn't validate their very own viewpoint. So the problem isn't how fact checked the news is but more on the voter's views. That might be something very hard to change. [1] [1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/16/facebook-bia...

The correct answer isn't to "switch feeds". It's to just turn it off. I'm happier, more productive and a better dad when I'm not being a feed-junkie. Maybe I'm an outlier.

Yes, but ignoring the news and political changes is kind of a luxury, it means your life is secure enough that you can afford not to pay much attention to any of that stuff because you feel confident it won't affect you personally.

Re: Snowden: Stop Relying on Facebook for Your News

#65

Post by untog » Wed, Nov 16, 2016, 11:41 PM UTC

sambe wrote: post #24

I know it's off-topic to comment on the quality of a submission, but this is the first time I've been truly shocked by a #1 HN story. Normally when there is some discussion about relevance to HN, I can at least say "this is not really for me, but there's no problem with it being here". This is so mundane and obvious that I suspect non-normal voting. If you found this story interesting - why? "On-Topic: Anything that…

Like it or not, tech now has a huge, huge place in society. A tweak in Facebook's algorithm could easily decide an election (I'm not saying it has, but it definitely could).

For many people on HN, their work has the potential to have social implications in a way that was never the case twenty years ago. I for one am glad to see stories like this posted to HN, as I think engineers that make things like the algorithms that decide news feeds have very valuable input.

Re: Snowden: Stop Relying on Facebook for Your News

#66

Post by JacobJans » Wed, Nov 16, 2016, 11:42 PM UTC

I have interacted with several people on Facebook who rely on fake news sources.

I pointed out fake news articles several times on one person's Facebook page. She agreed the articles were not true.

However, she added "I don't have time to figure out if they're true. People can read your comments."

I asked her what she thought of the fact that this particular article, which was blatantly false, was shared 16,000 times.

Her response:

"That's comforting."

I was shocked.

And yet, that is the reality we now live in. Many, many people are acting, and thinking, exactly like her.

Re: Snowden: Stop Relying on Facebook for Your News

#67

Post by astrodust » Wed, Nov 16, 2016, 11:43 PM UTC

mzw_mzw wrote: post #44

woodchuck64 wrote: post #29

One thing's for certain: Facebook AI research is running deep-layered natural-language ANNs right now on a year of election comments and likes. I think well before four years they'll know exactly how to detect bubbles of alternate political reality and also how to break them up. There will be some interesting decisions facing them before the next election.

Do you trust them to break up all the alternate reality bubbles, or just the ones they don't like? What's truly dangerous here is that one organization has so much control over what news people see.

I don't trust them one bit when their profitability is driven by clicks, and clicks are driven by bullshit stories.

Re: Snowden: Stop Relying on Facebook for Your News

#68

Post by npiazza83 » Wed, Nov 16, 2016, 11:44 PM UTC

sambe wrote: post #24

I know it's off-topic to comment on the quality of a submission, but this is the first time I've been truly shocked by a #1 HN story. Normally when there is some discussion about relevance to HN, I can at least say "this is not really for me, but there's no problem with it being here". This is so mundane and obvious that I suspect non-normal voting. If you found this story interesting - why? "On-Topic: Anything that…

Facebook sponsored a hackathon to solve this issue and a team of college students found a somewhat trivial answer in just 36 hours. That's pretty cool.. and related to the topic of this news article... Its worth discussing I guess? But the article itself is pretty paltry.

http://www.businessinsider.com/students-solve-facebooks-fake...

Re: Snowden: Stop Relying on Facebook for Your News

#69

Post by duaneb » Wed, Nov 16, 2016, 11:45 PM UTC

fixxer wrote: post #47

duaneb wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd like to see most independents / democratic people unite under a real progressive platform next election and stop the extremist cycle of social issues vs fear mongering. There's virtually zero chance of this happening without another party collapsing first. Hell, even then, independents are harder to herd than cats.

Because very few of them are truly independent.

I don't necessarily disagree, but how does this follow from what I said? I'd argue people are TOO independent to reach a third party consensus.

Re: Snowden: Stop Relying on Facebook for Your News

#70

Post by s_q_b » Wed, Nov 16, 2016, 11:45 PM UTC

I have a lot of mixed feelings on this one. Of course one shouldn't rely upon Facebook for the news, just as one shouldn't rely upon Fox News. But people are going to anyway.

The problem in this election was that Facebook did exactly what it was designed to do: show people more of what they wanted to see. Unfortunately that creates extreme echo chambers, where blatantly false news ricochets around the site, blindly liked by partisans on each side.

So that leaves open the question of what to do.

On the one hand, Facebook is a massive media company, and I am not comfortable handing them carte blanche to police and control the speech of their users. On the other, Facebook's current policy of "neutrality" creates an environment that favors political isolation and the spread of outright falsehoods.

At the very least, it seems Facebook could do something about purveyors of those falsehoods algorithmically. But even then I have my misgivings about a private corporation, or really anyone, determining the acceptable range of public discourse.