Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#171

Post by canada_dry » Wed, Nov 16, 2016, 11:33 PM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #117

bomdo wrote: post #20

Apparently, being a platinum member entails donating $500k [1], so it's not that big a deal for Microsoft ($85B revenue[2]). And as the article states, there has been negativity in the linux community regarding the old arch-enemy joining their ranks. Looking at the new Microsoft however, I think it's fair to assume that the days of "embrace, extend and extinguish"[3] are over and they are genuinely interested in coop…

Half the HN frontpage right now is MS articles. Seems oddly coincidental. We can't forget about the bad MS is still doing: forced Win10 upgrades, Win10 spyware, Android patent extortion, FAT/VFAT/exFAT patent suits and licenses, etc. The developer arm seems to be working hard, which is commendable. But looking at the rest of the org, this just seems like another Embrace round of the EEE cycle.

> We can't forget about the bad MS is still doing

This.

It doesn't take much skepticism to suspect MS has the ultimate agenda of eliminating all things Linux (as it exists today).

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#172

Post by AWildDHHAppears » Wed, Nov 16, 2016, 11:34 PM UTC

cyphar wrote: post #92

paulddraper wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(1) That's hair splitting of common usage. Quoting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux "Linux was originally developed as a free operating system for personal computers based on the Intel x86 architecture" "Linux has the largest installed base of all general-purpose operating systems." "Linux is not the only such operating system" "Linux is also the leading operating system on servers and other big iron systems" I'm…

> (1) That's hair splitting of common usage. The operating system's technical name is GNU/Linux[1]. Many people call it Linux incorrectly, but it is actually a serious distinction[2]. I would agree however that Linux is the most widely used OS kernel. To make the distinction more obvious, can you explain what the difference is between "Linux" and Android (which uses the Linux kernel). [ Hint: the difference is that A…

That's Stallman's opinion. In reality, it's called what people call it.

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#173

Post by merb » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 12:05 AM UTC

tener wrote: post #132

Analemma_ wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "oddly coincidental", it's Microsoft's developer conference today, which is where the announcement was made. During WWDC and I/O the front page is filled with Apple and Google news too.

Comparing to Apple, Microsoft seems to be getting more attention to their news, which is a praiseworthy change.

well since steve jobs died there wasn't anything noteworthy. I mean seriously, was there any new device or and WORTHY feature? I can't think of any. And old devices like the mac series or others weren't overhauled with something that made it more interesting. I mean everything since then was the touchbar from mac, which many weren't seeing as that feature, they basically removed more than they added noteworthy stuff. That's why they probably will suffer soon. They need a leader to bring them forward and not a businessman.

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#174

Post by merb » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 12:13 AM UTC

shmerl wrote: post #152

bomdo wrote: post #20

Apparently, being a platinum member entails donating $500k [1], so it's not that big a deal for Microsoft ($85B revenue[2]). And as the article states, there has been negativity in the linux community regarding the old arch-enemy joining their ranks. Looking at the new Microsoft however, I think it's fair to assume that the days of "embrace, extend and extinguish"[3] are over and they are genuinely interested in coop…

> I think it's fair to assume that the days of "embrace, extend and extinguish" are over and they are genuinely interested in cooperation. I'd welcome that, but MS still needs to fix several very major issues which stand in the way of such cooperation. 1. Stop the patent aggression. 2. More support for open standards. Especially in 3D graphics (DirectX lock-in), filesystems on removable media (exFAT lock-in), and so…

> 3. Stop Windows tax / Windows bundling anti-competitive practices.

well bundling is not a problem for me. I mean most people will use windows no matter how much better linux gets.

however the bigger problem is that windows actually allows vendors to create shitty drivers and fix shitty hardware within there kernel, that should not happen. windows should ONLY allow signed drivers for companies that are willing to create specifications for their devices.

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#175

Post by zekevermillion » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 12:47 AM UTC

Ezhik wrote: post #168

zekevermillion wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the ultimate embrace, extend move. Hopefully it means MS has reconciled itself to the fact that it cannot easily extinguish Linux. I would expect MS to use this position to divert headlines away from the concept of free software, and toward the MS brand; and to introduce dependencies to third-party software that makes it difficult to extract MS proprietary code entirely from the Linux ecosystem.

I think we need a bot to call EEE every time Microsoft is mentioned.

I don't think they are necessarily doing the extinguish part anymore as a primary strategy. More like embrace, extend, entangle.

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#176

Post by cheiVia0 » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:17 AM UTC

tn13 wrote: post #107

bomdo wrote: post #20

Apparently, being a platinum member entails donating $500k [1], so it's not that big a deal for Microsoft ($85B revenue[2]). And as the article states, there has been negativity in the linux community regarding the old arch-enemy joining their ranks. Looking at the new Microsoft however, I think it's fair to assume that the days of "embrace, extend and extinguish"[3] are over and they are genuinely interested in coop…

> being a platinum member entails donating $500k The important thing about this news is not the title or the amount. The important thing to notice that Microsoft has moved from extreme hostility to active co-operation with general Linux community. This is a good move and it benefits Linux community lot more than Microsoft. I always felt that it was needless to paint MS/Linux as some kind of zero some game to begin wi…

I think you misspelled co-option.

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#177

Post by Ezhik » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:38 AM UTC

zekevermillion wrote: post #175

Ezhik wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we need a bot to call EEE every time Microsoft is mentioned.

I don't think they are necessarily doing the extinguish part anymore as a primary strategy. More like embrace, extend, entangle.

Making people want to use your product was a good business strategy last I heard.

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#178

Post by colemickens » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 1:51 AM UTC

colemickens wrote: post #161

floopidydoopidy wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money talks, right. These are paid ads and paid shills/astroturfers.

What an absolutely unfounded and absurd accusation.

For the four people who have cowardly and silently downvoted, let me break this down so I can understand where you're coming from exactly...

"These are paid ads

This seems to be an accusation against HN moderators and admins.

Are you really asserting that the mod staff was paid off to fake votes for these stories or rig their rankings? That's quite an accusation.

and paid shills/astroturfers"

Do you really think a huge public company like Microsoft would be so stupid as to pay for shilling, let alone even imply or encourage it?

Just absurd. Take your out-dated blind hatred for Microsoft and find literally anything better to do with it.

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#179

Post by lindydonna » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:03 AM UTC

ss248 wrote: post #87

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I do think they changed. People come and go and corporate culture changes with them. > I have lost all trust in them, they have to gain it back and can only prove themselves with actions now Question: what actual actions could they take that would cause you to change your mind about them?

I think it's foolish to believe someone, who lied to you before, only based on words. I agree, people come and go, but if you are "new blood" you can only do so much. But I not against Microsoft in particular. They are rich and powerful. It would be good, if they are really good guys now. I give them a chance to prove themselves. But i don't expect much. >what actual actions could they take that would cause you to ch…

I've worked at MSFT since 2011, on developer tools and Azure. (My opinions are my own, of course).

When I first joined Microsoft, it was prior to the launch of Win8, and I saw a lot of complacency throughout many parts of the company. I found it frustrating, because I came from an open-source background on the Java stack, and I wanted to see more innovation.

In just a few years, things have changed dramatically, and that is because the market has changed. As others have said on this thread, Windows is no longer the key to Microsoft's business success, it is the ecosystem of products that Microsoft sells.

That is why there have been all of these cultural changes, because the industry has shifted, and there are some really smart leaders at Microsoft (e.g. Scott Guthrie) who realize that we have to change to stay viable.

So, the terrible practices you once saw just don't even make sense anymore. Microsoft is being challenged in every market it operates in, which means that we're forced to innovate. This turns out to be better for everyone, including employees like me. (I came from an academic research background, and I'd never want to work somewhere that was happy with the status quo.)

And yes, the Visual Studio 2015 uninstall takes a really long time. Some installs also take forever. They've made a ton of improvements in the new preview VS 2017.

The reason this wasn't done previously was not that a few engineers couldn't change things (though sometimes that is true), but rather that it was a hard engineering problem. It's easy to think that a big company has infinite resources, but the reality is that you can't build a product with too big of a team (see: Mythical Man Month), so you have to choose what you focus on. If you were to ask most customers, they'd rather have new features than have a better installation experience. That is, until the install experience got in people's way.

I don't work on anything related to the Windows client, so I can't speak to the telemetry, but what you're describing does sound pretty annoying. It is all anonymized (I know this because I'm familiar with the privacy reviews that all code has to go through), but I can see the case for wanting to opt out completely.

Obviously, one post is not going to change your mind (and I'm not looking to do so), but I'd suggest you look at leadership and philosophy changes, not just individuals.

Re: Microsoft Becomes Linux Foundation Platinum Member

#180

Post by native » Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 2:13 AM UTC

Pride gets in the way of many things, especially progress and innovation, in Microsoft's case, it's holding on to the Window's O.S. If I were the new man at Microsoft, I would immediately set course to release two versions of Windows, and let people make the decision: One with the standard Window's filesystem and one built on the Unix/Linux kernel, like Apple has done. And above all lead with design. The possibilities of what they can do at that point would be endless. But you gotta let go of that pride first!!!