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Visual Studio 2017 Release Candidate

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Re: Visual Studio 2017 Release Candidate

#91
post #13

As a .NET dev, I'm happy to see this: "a new way of view, edit, and debug any code without projects and solutions" Seems silly, but this solves a long time gripe w/ VS.

Good for small scripts in python etc I guess? Otherwise, when would you want the IDE's abilities but constrained to one file?

>Good for small scripts in python etc I guess? Otherwise, when would you want the IDE's abilities but constrained to one file?

There could be valid cases, including other than small scripts in Python. I recently saw someone on the D forum (forum.dlang.org) write in reply to someone, that he did not want to be bothered with creating a DUB project, while he was in the early / experimental stage of some project he was working on. He said, just using:

dmd file1.d file2.d ... filen.d

was faster and let him focus on the main work, the code itself.

dmd is the Digital Mars D compiler, like (g)cc/cl for C (Linux/Windows).

(DUB files are something like makefiles, but specific to D, though D can work with make and makefiles too)

I've thought the same and done likewise sometimes, in C, for example, and in D too. For small projects and in initial stages, one may not want to take the time to define a makefile, may instead just prefer to do (in Linux):

cc -o prog prog.c ...

And likewise in Visual Studio on Windows. But may still want the IDE's abilities such as Intellisense, debugger and suchlike.

Re: Visual Studio 2017 Release Candidate

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes - the release notes describes our initial capabilities on that front: https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/news/releasenotes/vs2017-... Essentially, you can run /layout on the installer to create an offline installation cache. We're working to add more capabilities here, but the fundamentals of the experience are in place.

Do you plan to package it to a sandboxed windows store app? Would it loose too much functionality that way? The garbage uninstalls left behind by earlier (and current) versions makes me think this might be a solution. Having it installable via the store would be not only convenient, but also a good promo for devs to package their other legacy apps.

We have talked about it. Visual Studio is somewhat exceptional in its requirements, though: it chain installs other runtimes and platforms that update independently, it installs services and reconfigures the operating system (e.g. Hyper-V emulators), it updates system components such as the .NET Framework, and it installs privileged components like debuggers. On top of that, it offers a plug-in model with extensions that are updated independently of Visual Studio itself. So the Windows Store is not a viable option at this stage, although we are continuing to partner with our colleagues over in Windows to see if we can make progress on some of these challenges in future releases.

In the meantime we are leveraging other Windows technology to minimize the system impact of an installation. And the work we've done to rebuild our setup engine sets us up well for the future as the Windows store enables support for our more advanced needs.

Best wishes, Tim Sneath | Visual Studio Team

Re: Visual Studio 2017 Release Candidate

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good for small scripts in python etc I guess? Otherwise, when would you want the IDE's abilities but constrained to one file?

You aren't necessarily limited to editing single files without project files. Lots of projects are folder-based with tasks or commands to be run on that folder structure. See: Rails apps, Hugo websites, anything written in Go.

Right. Directory-based projects were there from the early days of Unix and C, even before make and makefiles organized things a bit.

Re: Visual Studio 2017 Release Candidate

#94

Visual Studio "15" = Visual Studio 2017 = VC 15.0 Crystal clear. Why didn't Microsoft bump up VC version to 17 to sort of make VC version follow VS version. Would clear out some confusion going forward.

Many software packages have poor or confusing version numbering. Java, IIRC, jumped from Java 1.2 to 2 or 1.4 to 4 or something like that. Windows 3.1 to 95 to 98 to Me to NT (stood for New Technology, ha ha [1]) to 2000 to XP to Vista to 7 to 8 to 10 ... (might have got some of the order wrong there).

[1] New, as in the classic marketing/advertising phrase "new and improved", maybe ... :)

Re: Visual Studio 2017 Release Candidate

#95

Visual Studio "15" = Visual Studio 2017 = VC 15.0 Crystal clear. Why didn't Microsoft bump up VC version to 17 to sort of make VC version follow VS version. Would clear out some confusion going forward.

No, 2017 written as separate numbers are 2 0 1 7 and adding them up gives 10. Half of 10 is 5 (obviously) and that sum is 15. Get it?

Call in Ramanujan. He'll surely come up with a good explanation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srinivasa_Ramanujan#Hardy.E2.8...

Re: Visual Studio 2017 Release Candidate

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's some sick bastard in Microsoft who really likes these confusing sames. He's probably the same guy who came up with .NET. Remember when .NET could refer to virtually every product Microsoft made? I was half expecting them to call it Visual Studio Surface. Then you could run Surface on your Surface on any Surface on the planet.

Indeed, .NET must be the worst, most misleading, least googleable product name ever. I suppose we should be grateful that MS called an earliest technology COM not .COM.

The first result I get googling for ".net" is the Wikipedia article ".NET Framework". The first result I get for "COM" (or "com") is Microsoft's page on "COM: Component Object Model Technologies".

Honestly, I have never had a problem googling .NET and COM-related stuff.

Re: Visual Studio 2017 Release Candidate

#98
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the natural extension of Linux Subsystem on Windows.

PM for this at MS. We do work with WSL but do not rely on it. Currently we treat it as another remote Linux machine, just setup SSH in WSL and we'll work

Is this also integrated with the new Docker features that we saw in the live stream? I think being able to code in VS, build the project in ones favorite Linux distributions docker image and running or debugging it there sounds quite compelling.

If I develop in VS for a Linux target system how does VS know about the headers/libraries on the target?

Oh and a question that would surely interest some of my colleagues: Can it also be used to build and debug Linux kernel stuff, e.g. kernel modules?

Re: Visual Studio 2017 Release Candidate

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That went away a while ago, unfortunately... though I think yaml may have been better, the json-like structure was much easier than the xml mess for vs projects. Hoping they added an "empty" project that is just files, closest were some of the web projects, but even then, node projects always felt like an alien afterthought... haven't seen how they are in vs2017, guessing they brought in the ntvs stuff into mainline.

The problem with the proj xml files isn't that they are XML but that they weren't meant for human editing. So long as they fix that (no guids, include source files with just source/ .cs instead of listing each file etc) then I don't mind XML. In fact I prefer hand editing XML over json if the amount of configuration is nontrivial.

From what I've seen in the presentation today they addressed these points. There are no more guids, and you can use wildcards for source files.
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