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Visual Studio 2017 Release Candidate

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Re: Visual Studio 2017 Release Candidate

#61

Post by billforsternz »

cptskippy wrote: post #59
douche wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The naming has been awful with this release in particular. Having two Visual Studio (20)15s out at the same time is very confusing. Almost as bad as the Skype vs Skype for Business marketing boondoggle.

There's some sick bastard in Microsoft who really likes these confusing sames. He's probably the same guy who came up with .NET. Remember when .NET could refer to virtually every product Microsoft made? I was half expecting them to call it Visual Studio Surface. Then you could run Surface on your Surface on any Surface on the planet.

Indeed, .NET must be the worst, most misleading, least googleable product name ever. I suppose we should be grateful that MS called an earliest technology COM not .COM.

Re: Visual Studio 2017 Release Candidate

#63

Post by joshka »

asdfologist wrote: post #10
gigatexal wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're integrating xamarin into visual studio. That's pretty big no?

Is the new xamarin going to be any less buggy?

My experience with reporting a bug in Xamarin the other day was that it was fairly quickly reproduced and fixed. If you're hitting bugs I'd really recommend reporting them if you're not already.

Re: Visual Studio 2017 Release Candidate

#64

Post by alkonaut »

tracker1 wrote: post #30
hudo wrote: post #22

Project.json for .net core is gone, there's xproj file. How to change settings, like target framework, per-framework dependencies, build options, pre/post build steps, etc? I don't see any tooling support for that.

That went away a while ago, unfortunately... though I think yaml may have been better, the json-like structure was much easier than the xml mess for vs projects. Hoping they added an "empty" project that is just files, closest were some of the web projects, but even then, node projects always felt like an alien afterthought... haven't seen how they are in vs2017, guessing they brought in the ntvs stuff into mainline.

The problem with the proj xml files isn't that they are XML but that they weren't meant for human editing.

So long as they fix that (no guids, include source files with just source/.cs instead of listing each file etc) then I don't mind XML. In fact I prefer hand editing XML over json if the amount of configuration is nontrivial.

Re: Visual Studio 2017 Release Candidate

#65

Post by gregmac »

b_lindahl wrote: post #38

Visual Studio "15" = Visual Studio 2017 = VC 15.0 Crystal clear. Why didn't Microsoft bump up VC version to 17 to sort of make VC version follow VS version. Would clear out some confusion going forward.

I am beginning to think that Microsoft's bad verison naming is entirely on-purpose.

Windows has had terrible naming since NT -- back and forth between names/numbers/years (or nonsense like "Anniversary Update" or "R2"), have a completely different scheme for Server vs Desktop, and if you look at the corresponding kernel versions of these releases[0], the major/minor bump in versions seems completely arbitrary.

.NET is even worse. Framework vs CLR is a mess [1]. Core started over at 1.0. .NET Standard brings some consistency to it all, but also introduces another versioning scheme with overlapping numbers that mean different things[2].

But even other divisions do this: Xbox -> Xbox 360 -> Xbox One.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT#Releases

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework_version_history...

[2] https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2016/09/26/introduci...

Re: Visual Studio 2017 Release Candidate

#66

Post by wmkn »

StephanTLavavej wrote: post #57
wmkn wrote: post #29

Does this also mean a new C/C++ runtime library is available (i.e. vcruntime150)?

MSVC STL dev here. We're doing something different this time around. VS 2015 RTM and Update 1/2/3 were binary-compatible (as usual) while adding lots of features to the compiler and STL (unusual). VS 2017 RTM and its Updates will continue to be binary-compatible while adding features, meaning that our DLLs are still vcruntime140.dll, msvcp140.dll, etc. The versions are admittedly a mess, so here's the magic decoder r…

Thank you. I seem to have completely missed all the VC blog posts about the bincompat decision with regard to Visual Studio "15"/2017.

Glad to know that the VC100 to VC140 overhaul that I completed only very recently can still be considered fully up to date with the latest and greatest :).

Re: Visual Studio 2017 Release Candidate

#67

Post by gcp »

TheCoreh wrote: post #37
LyalinDotCom wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes our C++ team has been investing into this area for a while now, we're building some really powerful debugging capabilities there as just one thing to mention with remote debug right out to your Linux machine or VM

Does that mean VS will support C11 features?

Does the clang frontend for their backend not address that already?

Re: Visual Studio 2017 Release Candidate

#68

Post by timsneath »

Zitrax wrote: post #60
satysin wrote: post #15

The new installer is nice. Installed just a C++ environment in 5 minutes!!

That sounds awesome. Is there an offline installer yet ?

Yes - the release notes describes our initial capabilities on that front: https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/news/releasenotes/vs2017-...

Essentially, you can run /layout on the installer to create an offline installation cache. We're working to add more capabilities here, but the fundamentals of the experience are in place.

Re: Visual Studio 2017 Release Candidate

#69

Post by douche »

cptskippy wrote: post #59
douche wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The naming has been awful with this release in particular. Having two Visual Studio (20)15s out at the same time is very confusing. Almost as bad as the Skype vs Skype for Business marketing boondoggle.

There's some sick bastard in Microsoft who really likes these confusing sames. He's probably the same guy who came up with .NET. Remember when .NET could refer to virtually every product Microsoft made? I was half expecting them to call it Visual Studio Surface. Then you could run Surface on your Surface on any Surface on the planet.

> confusing sames

I can't tell if that's a typo or intentional. I might start calling them that.

Re: Visual Studio 2017 Release Candidate

#70

Post by WorldMaker »

hudo wrote: post #44
tracker1 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That went away a while ago, unfortunately... though I think yaml may have been better, the json-like structure was much easier than the xml mess for vs projects. Hoping they added an "empty" project that is just files, closest were some of the web projects, but even then, node projects always felt like an alien afterthought... haven't seen how they are in vs2017, guessing they brought in the ntvs stuff into mainline.

project.json is still official way of configuring the projects. Dotnet cli uses that, msbuild is not there yet i think. Empty project is done with "donnet new", and it's really small and light ...

Recent versions of the dotnet cli work with both xproj and project.json for the time being, but have defaulted `dotnet new` to the xproj output. It also provides a `dotnet migrate` command to convert a project.json to an xproj.
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