Live data from Hacker News

Ask YC: Should I quit programming to pursue the arts?

news.ycombinator.com

31–40 of 56 posts

Re: Ask YC: Should I quit programming to pursue the arts?

#31
post #21

To me it sounds like you really want to do something artistic. I'd say don't think about it too much. Just do it. It might not work out but you're fortunate to live in the western civilization (I'm assuming) so you won't starve if things go wrong and it's likely that you can always get another programming job. I think you have a duty to yourself to try this out. Just imagine what you'll wish you would have done in 30…

That's the same way i feel now. Programming is essentially free and i'll always be able to pursue it no matter what my age is, however art could be limiting depending on the medium you choose - plus you only get one life to take a shot at it.

Re: Ask YC: Should I quit programming to pursue the arts?

#32
I went through the exact same thing 2 years ago. I was so sick of sitting in a cubicle and wanted to try stand-up comedy. Every one I knew encouraged me, so like a typical hacker, I set up a project to get educated and find out what it would take. Either a career change, or just part-time to break up the monotony.

Here's what I learned:

The reality is far different from what it appears to be. Instead of nights full of laughter and fun, it would probably be monotonous nights of the same thing over and over, except for 10% of the money I make now, if that.

Most stand-up comics barely scrape by, spend a lot of time in their cars, a lot of late nights in the bar, and eat a lot of fast food. They do the same 5, 10, 30, or 60 minute routine night after night, while they work their way up the ladder from "opener" to "feature" to "headliner". Every one of them plays a bad room once or twice a week. Many of them spend half their time looking for work. And less than 1% ever really "make it" and less than 1% of those "make it big", no matter how good they are.

No thanks.

Then I redirected my thinking to figure out how to take what I currently did and make it something I'd love. Pretty straight forward solution to that: my startup. And I'll save the laughs for friend and family get togethers.

Don't mean to scare you. You SHOULD do what you love. But you should also get a clear idea of what it'll be like before you flick the switch. Sometimes, the grass is NOT greener on the other side.

Re: Ask YC: Should I quit programming to pursue the arts?

#33
post #26

I've gone back and forth between working in the arts and working in software, and now work at the line between the two. The thing is, usually making ends meet working in the arts isn't very sexy. I taught bass, played at business parties, and did studio work for a while. It paid well, but I was teaching 14 year olds to play Limp Bizket songs and playing cheesy bass lines for TV commercials. There were definitely mome…

I don't necessarily want to join the blue man group, but have rather have the creative freedom of something as subjective as acting and yet still being able to provide a need in peoples lives (entertainment).

Some people are wired to do art. They have to to be happy. If you're one of those people, by all means, do art. But it sounds like what you're debating here is not doing art vs. not doing art, but taking art as a career path.

All that I'm saying is I don't expect you'd gain much by swapping out a tech day job for an arts day (or night) job. It's still going to be the thing that's paying the bills to help you support what you're really into.

We're awake about 112 hours a week. Even with a full time job that leaves more hours than most people can be productive in arts endeavors.

This isn't, "Well, goofing around on stage is fine as a hobby..." blather. Go full on. Set goals. Get in a community. Produce stuff and find a place to exhibit it.

But if the guys in the Blue Man Group (or similar) are doing artistic stuff they're really excited about, it probably isn't the Blue Man Group. :-)

Re: Ask YC: Should I quit programming to pursue the arts?

#34
What do you think about artistic flash games, for example http://amanita-design.net/samorost-1/

I've recently stumbled across the "casual games" scene, and I think there are really interesting things going on. I always thought of games as art, but some of these games take it to a new level. Another example: http://www.10gnomes.com/02.html

I'd say there is more artistic motivation than traditional gameplay in that game (photography).

Re: Ask YC: Should I quit programming to pursue the arts?

#35
Here's a take from an ex-classical musician, now software engineer:

Making a living in the arts is excruciating. Classical musicians today tend to live in an unstable patchwork of part-time gigs, private teaching, side jobs lacking health insurance, etc... and that's if they're lucky. Only a few manage to obtain full time jobs. As others have noted, the day to day life of a musician isn't as glamorous as it might seem. I loved Beethoven's 5th as a child; but after playing it for the N-teenth time, I began to see how a career in music could grow tedious.

When I decided to go into CS it was because I realized that the people who had successful music careers tended to be a.) either so insanely talented that it was obvious they'd be catapulted into the inner circle (eg, full time gigs) fairly easily or b.) so monomaniacal in their dedication to their craft that they simply had no other choice. Anything other than being a musician would have meant having to curl up and die.

Since I was neither of those, I decided to turn to something that'd I'd been quite good at in high school (math/science) and rather enjoyed, and I would describe myself as much happier now. Vastly happier, and financially secure. Music is still a part of my life as a fulfilling hobby.

Whatever you decide, I'd highly recommend reading Daniel Gilbert's "Stumbling on Happiness," before making any irrevocable decisions. Gilbert is a psychologist whose research suggests that people are generally extremely bad at predicting the future and figuring out what actually will make them happy. It's a cautionary tale for anyone who might think "If only I could do X I'd be happy..." Follow that with "How to Want What You Have," by Timothy Ray Miller, and you have a prescription for happiness.

Re: Ask YC: Should I quit programming to pursue the arts?

#36

"... i'm a self-taught programmer. I've taken a job as a developer for a start-up in Waltham after college ... but i don't think i'm going to be happy in the long run ... Then it occurred to me that since i've been going to business school and programming, i've practically lost all touch with my artistic side (I used to paint, draw, act, etc..) and that I really regret it ..." make things that artists like :) The tri…

make things that artists like :)

For what it's worth, I think this is what PG tried to do... Viaweb started out as a service to allow art galleries to get on the web:

http://www.paulgraham.com/bronze.html

Re: Ask YC: Should I quit programming to pursue the arts?

#37
post #5

A violinist I know once gave me the following advice: "If you love music, find yourself a job which doesn't involve playing music. If you become a professional musician, you'll find that you have to take every gig which comes along, just to make ends meet; you'll find yourself saying 'dear god, not Beethoven's fifth symphony AGAIN'; and ultimately you'll end up not loving music any more." I figure that doing a startu…

The first point is sadly true - probably more a comment on human nature than on the arts, per se. "When your hobby becomes your job, you have to find a new hobby."

Re: Ask YC: Should I quit programming to pursue the arts?

#38
First ask yourself these questions:

Do you have any responsibilities?

Are you young enough such that you can go into something more stable if things don't "work out"?

If your answers are "no" and "yes" then go for it. You'll be better off for having done something different. It might set you back some years if you were to pursue your career like everybody else (in case it doesn't work out as planned), but when you're stuck in a cubicle looking back you will know what it's worth.

I hope you make it doing whatever you are aiming for so that you don't have to look back - and that brings up another point: don't look back if you choose to do something risky. It's do or die!!!

YAY!

----------------------------

Now for the real answer to your question:

If you need to ask somebody if you should or should not, then you probably shouldn't.

Until you believe in yourself to be able to make it then don't commit. The fact that you are asking is telling me that there is some self-doubt, and this will be your biggest obstacle. When things seem darkest, your mettle must be such that you stick it out and see it to the end, no matter what the results are to be.

First overcome your self doubt and then see if you need to ask anybody your question. The choice to do one thing over another must come from within yourself, not from the advice of others.

I'd rather be brutally honest with you instead of sticking to the line above my real answer...if you had the courage to go for it, then you wouldn't be worried about "breaking the news" to your parents because there would be no question in your mind about your success. Yes, I'm being harsh, but this is NOTHING compared to what you might encounter out in the wild, or from your parents... ;) If you believe in yourself, then nothing I could say would change your mind.

I'm not advising you to be pig-headed or stubborn but rather seek a state of mind called "self-confidence". Your question is indicative of the fact that self-confidence to pursue this direction is lacking. I would rather you reflect upon this fact instead of responding because I'll only tell you in response: you don't need to justify yourself to anybody but yourself.

Read "The Unfettered Mind" by Takuan Soho. If you can understand "immovable wisdom" then you have taken the first step in a long journey towards becoming more confident with what you want to do.

Being at peace with the outcome of your action (both good and bad) is a totally separate issue!

EDIT: First step to becoming more confident: capitalize the 'I' in any sentence that refers to yourself. It speaks volumes when you capitalize other proper nouns but don't do the same for yourself!

Re: Ask YC: Should I quit programming to pursue the arts?

#39
It sounds like you've already made your mind up. You want to pursue the arts, and are going to try and do that. By all means, you're young. Life is short.

There are many of us that tried to make a go of it in the arts scene, but ended up going in to technical fields. I think that there is a correlation.

I've had a day job as an ER nurse for 15 years. I knew it was not what I wanted to do for a living, but it paid the bills. I, too thought that vocational happiness was to be found pursuing the arts, so, I studied art formally and on my own in a lot of different forms: interior design, sculpture, painting, photography, computer graphics, video editing, animation, 3D modeling and animation.

Any one of those things can be done to pay the bills, and there are career paths for each one of those. But, at some point, I found that I had to trade my passion to someone else for cash. And, doing that was impossible for me. I wasn't able to stay sane and edit the industrial video about the history of SmallCo's dialysis machines. I wasn't willing to create the logo like the client wanted, because I knew that what the client wanted was aesthetically wrong and ugly. I wasn't willing to put in 16 hours x 6 days a weeks just to be a visual effects artist in Hollywood.

It's one of the reasons that Hackers and Painters made so much sense to me. There is a creativity in programming, and in hacking that is very close to the creativity that one gets while painting or sculpting. Especially when the hacking is done on your own business.

It's the reason that I'm not going to work for someone else as a programmer, too. Why should I create value for someone else, when I can create value for myself? Why should I spend 8-10 hours a day at a desk so someone else's company can increase in value, when I can spend 8-10 hours a day on my own company making something that people want.

As an entrepreneur, I get the creative control. I get to be the decider. I set my own hours. I financially benefit from my own work. And, I get to do a bunch of different things. That's why I'm going to be a founder instead of an artist. It's a lot of the same benefits and risks, and a lot greater upside. At the same time, had I never knocked on the arts door, I would have never ended up being an entrepreneur.

Re: Ask YC: Should I quit programming to pursue the arts?

#40
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be the most practical solution right now, however i'm worried about the time crunch that working at a startup will have on me.

If you don't mind living over seas, you can have a pretty high standard of living for much less. Based on my off the cuff calculations, I think a person with a decent programming job could save enough in 5 or so years (with frugal living) that they could live overseas off the interest. If true, this is much more guaranteed path to financial freedom than a startup. Just an option to consider. This is what I've found s…

That's a pretty interesting notion, actually. I'd never do it, but it's nice to have the option.
Post reply on HN