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Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

nytimes.com

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Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#191

Post by marrs »

mnw21cam wrote: post #165
Ntrails wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll check my messages at a traffic light, or flick to the next song whilst driving. I don't see any particular danger in these things (apart from possibly angering the poor bugger behind me if I'm slow to notice the lights change). Much like ye olden days of changing a cassette or tuning the radio - there are times and place to pay less attention. People just need to be sensible.

Do that in the UK in front of a police officer, and expect several points on your licence and a fine. You're only allowed to use a distracting device in similar circumstances as you are allowed to be drunk. Arguing with an officer that you are parked by the side of the road is not sufficient if for example you have the engine on. In some circumstances just sitting in the driver's seat while in possession of the keys…

Do anything in a car in the UK and you can expect several points on your licence. They don't even have to be in front of you any more: they just record it on a camera

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#192

Post by wtbob »

niftich wrote: post #29

Apps are a plausible contributor. But I also noticed that some new cars ship with infotainment systems that consist solely of a (bad) touchscreen; as new cars slowly replace old ones, the number of cars with actual physical buttons for the music player or radio is dwindling. This is awful because the lack of physical buttons prevents the tactile feedback needed to operate the device without having to look at it. Luck…

> But I also noticed that some new cars ship with infotainment systems that consist solely of a (bad) touchscreen; as new cars slowly replace old ones, the number of cars with actual physical buttons for the music player or radio is dwindling. This is awful because the lack of physical buttons prevents the tactile feedback needed to operate the device without having to look at it.

This is a huge issue. I'm fortunate that my car's infotainment system is controlled by buttons & knobs; I worry about folks in e.g. Teslas who are forced to take their eyes off the road.

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#193

Post by wtbob »

et-al wrote: post #12

As an aside, sometimes I wonder about how much more efficient we are today due to smartphones. Places where we've lost time: - at the stoplight, the driver in front of you is too busy looking down to notice the light has changed - in the bathroom, people check social media on the toilet - on the sidewalk, folks walk slower because they're pre-occupied with texting - meeting up with friends, it's more acceptable to be…

> even talking with people present: "Sorry, could you please repeat that? I was just responding to an email."

'I'm sorry, I scheduled this meeting so that we could have a conversation. Let's reschedule for when your email-checking schedule is clear.'

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#194

Post by waylandsmithers »

apsec112 wrote: post #65

Headline: "Blame Apps" Evidence given in the article: - "Safety experts say" that it's true. The experts are not named or quoted. No evidence or reasoning is given to support the claim. - Highway fatalities are up this year. However, they're still significantly down from 2007, when the iPhone was first introduced. Mobile has been booming for almost a decade - if we should "blame apps", why hasn't it been a concern be…

I'd say this is one of the greatest challenges journalists face: Sometimes you talk to a lot of people and do a lot of research only to find out there is no story.

"Smartphone usage increase while driving has caused more accidents" is a nice narrative that totally _makes sense_, but unfortunately only becomes newsworthy if there is evidence that the reporter can find-- perhaps from highway patrols and police officers, mobile data usage stats, or I suppose anecdotally from someone who studies this stuff.

But sometimes that's not available, or it is and goes against the original narrative. At that point the reporter can either choose to tell their editor that there is no story, or go out seeking confirmation of the original narrative.

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#195

Post by brlewis »

throwanem wrote: post #176
zaroth wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I'm glad I don't live there! A parked car is a perfect place to have a phone call or queue up tunes for the ride. A stop light, not so much. Are you not allowed to use Maps for navigation too?

I drive but rarely, and finally had a chance last month to use my phone's voice-prompted turn-by-turn navigation mode. It was great! Like any human navigator I've ever worked with, except never hesitant or uncertain and always on the ball with the next turn well in advance of reaching it. I really have no idea why anyone would want to navigate by looking at a moving map display. If you know where you're going, you're…

When traversing an intersection with odd angles often the voice prompt will say something like "slight right" for the road I think of as straight ahead, or vice versa. A glance at the map clears these up.

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#196

Post by DominikR »

apsec112 wrote: post #65

Headline: "Blame Apps" Evidence given in the article: - "Safety experts say" that it's true. The experts are not named or quoted. No evidence or reasoning is given to support the claim. - Highway fatalities are up this year. However, they're still significantly down from 2007, when the iPhone was first introduced. Mobile has been booming for almost a decade - if we should "blame apps", why hasn't it been a concern be…

It is likely not true as this was printed in the New York Times.

Their journalists and editors are mostly Socialists so they are bound to generate one article after another following the narrative that we should ban something because smart technocrats in their infinite wisdom have again found a reason why they know best what we ignorant masses should do.

The mentioned safety expert is probably the NYT journalist who wrote the article. They are experts on every single issue they have an opinion on.

Look, it's even printed in the NYT, so they must be experts by definition.

Edit: You can even see that they are Socialists by looking at the headline. Blame apps instead of reckless individuals.

That's because it's always the fault of some outside force when something goes horribly wrong, people are just dumb sheep in dire need of upgrade to the Socialist Übermensch, didn't you know?

Every solution is a central planning solution, in this case a new regulation. Forget liberty, this is only for backwards rednecks clinging to their guns and religion.

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#197

Post by throwanem »

brlewis wrote: post #195
throwanem wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drive but rarely, and finally had a chance last month to use my phone's voice-prompted turn-by-turn navigation mode. It was great! Like any human navigator I've ever worked with, except never hesitant or uncertain and always on the ball with the next turn well in advance of reaching it. I really have no idea why anyone would want to navigate by looking at a moving map display. If you know where you're going, you're…

When traversing an intersection with odd angles often the voice prompt will say something like "slight right" for the road I think of as straight ahead, or vice versa. A glance at the map clears these up.

Mine did that a couple of times even in the short route on which I tried it out. I didn't have trouble understanding what was meant, because the configuration of the intersections made only one interpretation sensible. I can see how that might not be true in all cases, but I'm not sure the occasional disambiguation is worth the distraction of a visible moving map display.

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#198

Post by marrs »

kriro wrote: post #177
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but... evidence like this is hard to acquire - the most you can get is convincing circumstantial evidence (if the phone survives get accelerometer and activity use from it. That sounds like a worthwhile branch of forensics) And even if we do it's hard to go from circumstantial to causal But as a driver, I can (un)happily attest that I am distracted from the road if trying to do anything non trivial with my podcas…

There have been quite a few simulator studies that have shown significantly worse driving for cell phone users. Granted it's a jump from that to the real world. I remember one from a while back that showed that cell phone users were as bad as drunk drivers with a relatively low intoxication but they were bad in different ways (distraction vs. aggression). I'm sure there must be similar studies in real world settings…

If we're talking about the same studies, then they also found that it was equally distracting to be talking to a passenger. God knows how dangerous it must be to go on a family outing.

In short, I'm skeptical about what those results really tell us.

Having said that, I have some sympathy with the article. I fundamentally don't like touch screens in cars (it stops me from considering a Tesla). They require all of your attention when you're using them and this is a bad thing imo.

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#199

Post by trprog »

FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #116
ramblenode wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if I've become more cognizant of bad journalism over time or simply hold journalism to a higher standard with the rise of publicly available data sets which could be used for real insight into questions like this. Whichever one, I am infrequently satisfied with the level of evidence that supports an article's conclusion. I would love to see a truly data-driven news publication that made quantifying uncer…

I'm not sure if their understanding of data or statistics has decreased, but the level of journalism has definitely taken a nosedive. A friend of mine in journalism school says they are taught that accuracy isn't as important as being first or having a clickbait thanks to social media

>I'm not sure if their understanding of data or statistics has decreased, but the level of journalism has definitely taken a nosedive.

Not really surprising. The number of professional journalists is shrinking yet those that remain are expected to produce the same volume of output as was possible with a much larger staff.

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#200

Post by cujo »

apsec112 wrote: post #65

Headline: "Blame Apps" Evidence given in the article: - "Safety experts say" that it's true. The experts are not named or quoted. No evidence or reasoning is given to support the claim. - Highway fatalities are up this year. However, they're still significantly down from 2007, when the iPhone was first introduced. Mobile has been booming for almost a decade - if we should "blame apps", why hasn't it been a concern be…

I wish there was a browser plugin or something that would give you a vetted synopsis like this for articles you view.

Best comment I've seen in a long while.

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