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Kids Win the Right to Sue the US Government Over Climate Change

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Re: Kids Win the Right to Sue the US Government Over Climate Change

#21

Post by eggy »

I am glad kids are taking action rather than just complaining, however, people can take personal action. The money for any pay out from a suit will most likely come from their future social benefits rather than the industries they are suing.

Some personal choices to take action on:

Buy local produce, and let your local supermarket or grocer know this. Educate others. It saves on all of the transport emissions from air or truck freight of goods.

Cut back on electrical, and gas usage. Most homes I have visited in the US have multiple TVs, each family member has more than two computers, or smartphones and tablets.

Car pool. Buy economy cars, not SUVs. Walk. Run. Cycle to work. Americans can sure use the exercise and diet changes. (DISCLAIMER: I am an American, born and raised). I was working physically 9-11 hours a day in Las Vegas, and cycling 6 miles to and from the construction site each day. Obese co-workers called me crazy. Then before Christmas 2009, I gave CPR to a 35 year old man with two kids and new born baby on the site, but he died before he hit the ground from a massive coronary. He had just arrived to work with Dunkin Donuts coffee and donuts in a bag and dropped. He stopped taking his heart medication his wife said.

After being in SE Asia for 8 years, and returning to the US, my perception of just how obese Americans have become is striking. I have been living in the rice fields of East Java, so it is even more stark.

I am a libertarian and mainly capitalist, so I don't wish any of this forced on anyone through legislation, and people are free to continue in their ways; I am just presenting some perceptions that might make people think twice about their lifestyles. They can choose what they want, but their are consequences locally and globally.

For me, I have not felt healthier, and less stressed, and I will take these tools, perceptions and lifestyle choices back with me to the US. I went vegetarian 3 years ago, haven't drank alcohol in 7 years, and I run and exercise everyday. I know it might be harder when I get back, but I have built a solid foundation to continue there anyways.

Big country-wide, policy changes need to be thought out economically, since we can only throw so much money and manpower at a particular solution. Some of the more rational choices may seem to go against feelings, and unfortunately, those who want the vote, vote for what makes people feel happier, not what's probably best for them and the country as a whole.

Re: Kids Win the Right to Sue the US Government Over Climate Change

#23

Post by [deleted] »

Loic wrote: post #15

I am surprised by the very negative ton of the first 10+ comments. These kids are not kids any more. They are between 15 and 20. As a reminder, Lafayette was 16. They see an issue and act on it with the tools they have. When you have an issue with a piece of software, you look at the alternatives and possibly you act on the issue, you fix it. They do what you do as designer/software developer, just in another field.…

[deleted]

Re: Kids Win the Right to Sue the US Government Over Climate Change

#24

Post by simonh »

akerro wrote: post #18
Loic wrote: post #15

I am surprised by the very negative ton of the first 10+ comments. These kids are not kids any more. They are between 15 and 20. As a reminder, Lafayette was 16. They see an issue and act on it with the tools they have. When you have an issue with a piece of software, you look at the alternatives and possibly you act on the issue, you fix it. They do what you do as designer/software developer, just in another field.…

>but if this is the only solution, why not? It's not the only solution, and government didn't create it. People are causing global warming, not government. It's people who decide to use cars and get stuck in traffic instead taking a bus, bus will go that route anyway, people in cars will cause more traffic and generate more pollution. People who don't turn off lights (also TVs, computers) at their homes over night. I…

The US government has committed to meeting environmental targets such as emissions limits, and can be held accountable for meeting them. It also licenses and regulates industrial activity, and therefore can reasonably be held accountable for the results of that activity.

Or are you arguing that the government should have no accountability, oversight, responsibility or say in any of the activity of it's citizens?

It's not up to the plaintiffs to say what specific thing the government or individuals should or should not do - switch off this light bulb, don't drive on that journey, don't build that factory. It's the government's responsibility to maintain the environment in a sustainable way and implement policies to do so. If it's not doing so, or worse not even trying to do so or doing so in a willfully negligent manner, then it should be held accountable for that. The same should be true of any of the government's responsibilities.

Re: Kids Win the Right to Sue the US Government Over Climate Change

#25

Post by roryisok »

akerro wrote: post #18
Loic wrote: post #15

I am surprised by the very negative ton of the first 10+ comments. These kids are not kids any more. They are between 15 and 20. As a reminder, Lafayette was 16. They see an issue and act on it with the tools they have. When you have an issue with a piece of software, you look at the alternatives and possibly you act on the issue, you fix it. They do what you do as designer/software developer, just in another field.…

>but if this is the only solution, why not? It's not the only solution, and government didn't create it. People are causing global warming, not government. It's people who decide to use cars and get stuck in traffic instead taking a bus, bus will go that route anyway, people in cars will cause more traffic and generate more pollution. People who don't turn off lights (also TVs, computers) at their homes over night. I…

People burning wood or coal in their homes is a miniscule contributor to CO2 compared to coal power plants. Only governments have the power to stop coal being mined at a national level, or coal power plants from being built.

Re: Kids Win the Right to Sue the US Government Over Climate Change

#26

Post by croon »

mieses wrote: post #4

Nice idea. Conservative attention seekers could sue over inherited debt.

I would love that, given it gets resolved which effects stemmed from which president/house/senate. Seeing the circular party occupancy in the US, anything good gives credit to the following elect, and anything bad gives blame to the following elect. Therefor most decisions lean towards short term benefits and long term detriments.

Re: Kids Win the Right to Sue the US Government Over Climate Change

#27

Post by akerro »

simonh wrote: post #24
akerro wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but if this is the only solution, why not? It's not the only solution, and government didn't create it. People are causing global warming, not government. It's people who decide to use cars and get stuck in traffic instead taking a bus, bus will go that route anyway, people in cars will cause more traffic and generate more pollution. People who don't turn off lights (also TVs, computers) at their homes over night. I…

The US government has committed to meeting environmental targets such as emissions limits, and can be held accountable for meeting them. It also licenses and regulates industrial activity, and therefore can reasonably be held accountable for the results of that activity. Or are you arguing that the government should have no accountability, oversight, responsibility or say in any of the activity of it's citizens? It's…

Agreed, I'm not saying government is not responsible for it, they provide grants for renewable energy, create power plants, give tax cuts for people with own solar panels etc. But it's up to people how that energy and material is used, is it wasted or used efficiently. So far, we're great at wasting everything.

Re: Kids Win the Right to Sue the US Government Over Climate Change

#28

Post by blackoil »

s_m_t wrote: post #8

I doubt this will get very far. It seems like it would open up a whole can of worms and completely subvert our entire system of law making. >She declared the facts of man-made climate change “undisputed,” and supported the plaintiffs’ challenge to hold national powers accountable for the damages caused by global warming. >Aikin wrote: “This action is of a different order than the typical environmental case. It allege…

Yes, if govt decides to tax some lifesaving drug at 10000%, you should sue them.

Re: Kids Win the Right to Sue the US Government Over Climate Change

#29

Post by croon »

Loic wrote: post #15

I am surprised by the very negative ton of the first 10+ comments. These kids are not kids any more. They are between 15 and 20. As a reminder, Lafayette was 16. They see an issue and act on it with the tools they have. When you have an issue with a piece of software, you look at the alternatives and possibly you act on the issue, you fix it. They do what you do as designer/software developer, just in another field.…

> We need more people doing and less people complaining. Some may consider it stupid to sue, but if this is the only solution, why not?

Some may consider it stupid to elect Trump, but obviously tens of millions of people felt it was the only solution.

I actually agree with you. Whatever you think of this suit or this election, I think we can agree that there are some situations in which you have no "good" recourse, and have to resort to whatever is there to make your point/stand.

Re: Kids Win the Right to Sue the US Government Over Climate Change

#30

Post by croon »

akerro wrote: post #18
Loic wrote: post #15

I am surprised by the very negative ton of the first 10+ comments. These kids are not kids any more. They are between 15 and 20. As a reminder, Lafayette was 16. They see an issue and act on it with the tools they have. When you have an issue with a piece of software, you look at the alternatives and possibly you act on the issue, you fix it. They do what you do as designer/software developer, just in another field.…

>but if this is the only solution, why not? It's not the only solution, and government didn't create it. People are causing global warming, not government. It's people who decide to use cars and get stuck in traffic instead taking a bus, bus will go that route anyway, people in cars will cause more traffic and generate more pollution. People who don't turn off lights (also TVs, computers) at their homes over night. I…

> It's not the only solution, and government didn't create it. People are causing global warming, not government. It's people who decide to use cars and get stuck in traffic instead taking a bus, bus will go that route anyway, people in cars will cause more traffic and generate more pollution.

This is what's wrong. The government is supposed to be the people. The point of government is for people to steer people (as a collective) in the right direction.

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