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Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

nytimes.com

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Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#171

Post by varjag »

m_mueller wrote: post #95
apsec112 wrote: post #65

Headline: "Blame Apps" Evidence given in the article: - "Safety experts say" that it's true. The experts are not named or quoted. No evidence or reasoning is given to support the claim. - Highway fatalities are up this year. However, they're still significantly down from 2007, when the iPhone was first introduced. Mobile has been booming for almost a decade - if we should "blame apps", why hasn't it been a concern be…

Also, just look at that graph they posted (can't be linked to because the labels are not included in the png file). Biggest spike in 50 years? More like a minor blip in a steady downwards trend.

That blip is probably thousands of dead people.

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#172

Post by zaroth »

mnw21cam wrote: post #165
Ntrails wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll check my messages at a traffic light, or flick to the next song whilst driving. I don't see any particular danger in these things (apart from possibly angering the poor bugger behind me if I'm slow to notice the lights change). Much like ye olden days of changing a cassette or tuning the radio - there are times and place to pay less attention. People just need to be sensible.

Do that in the UK in front of a police officer, and expect several points on your licence and a fine. You're only allowed to use a distracting device in similar circumstances as you are allowed to be drunk. Arguing with an officer that you are parked by the side of the road is not sufficient if for example you have the engine on. In some circumstances just sitting in the driver's seat while in possession of the keys…

I guess I'm glad I don't live there! A parked car is a perfect place to have a phone call or queue up tunes for the ride. A stop light, not so much.

Are you not allowed to use Maps for navigation too?

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#173

Post by zaroth »

varjag wrote: post #171
m_mueller wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, just look at that graph they posted (can't be linked to because the labels are not included in the png file). Biggest spike in 50 years? More like a minor blip in a steady downwards trend.

That blip is probably thousands of dead people.

That graph is probably millions of dead people.

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#174

Post by zaroth »

venomsnake wrote: post #167
apsec112 wrote: post #65

Headline: "Blame Apps" Evidence given in the article: - "Safety experts say" that it's true. The experts are not named or quoted. No evidence or reasoning is given to support the claim. - Highway fatalities are up this year. However, they're still significantly down from 2007, when the iPhone was first introduced. Mobile has been booming for almost a decade - if we should "blame apps", why hasn't it been a concern be…

Don't forget that cars get progressively safer with each passing year. So and uptick could actually mean quite a spike if you normalize.

Great point - so is it possible the fleet as a whole got less safe last year? Or less more safe than usual?

My recollection is that car buying is doing just fine lately so I doubt it, but would have been a good point to make in TFA instead of another anecdote.

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#175

Post by Kiro »

brohoolio wrote: post #124
apsec112 wrote: post #65

Headline: "Blame Apps" Evidence given in the article: - "Safety experts say" that it's true. The experts are not named or quoted. No evidence or reasoning is given to support the claim. - Highway fatalities are up this year. However, they're still significantly down from 2007, when the iPhone was first introduced. Mobile has been booming for almost a decade - if we should "blame apps", why hasn't it been a concern be…

It's true. I see so many people looking down now at their phones while driving. I'm not sure why it's acceptable now, but it's commonplace. I counted at least 10 drivers on my 12 minute commute yesterday. The scariest one was someone coming in the opposite direction who didn't look up in the 5 seconds I was driving past him. It would have been easy for him to drift into a head on collision.

What is true? You're presenting anecdotal evidence. It doesn't give proof to the headline OP is disputing.

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#176

Post by throwanem »

zaroth wrote: post #172
mnw21cam wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do that in the UK in front of a police officer, and expect several points on your licence and a fine. You're only allowed to use a distracting device in similar circumstances as you are allowed to be drunk. Arguing with an officer that you are parked by the side of the road is not sufficient if for example you have the engine on. In some circumstances just sitting in the driver's seat while in possession of the keys…

I guess I'm glad I don't live there! A parked car is a perfect place to have a phone call or queue up tunes for the ride. A stop light, not so much. Are you not allowed to use Maps for navigation too?

I drive but rarely, and finally had a chance last month to use my phone's voice-prompted turn-by-turn navigation mode. It was great! Like any human navigator I've ever worked with, except never hesitant or uncertain and always on the ball with the next turn well in advance of reaching it.

I really have no idea why anyone would want to navigate by looking at a moving map display. If you know where you're going, you're far better off to keep your eyes on the road and use the voice prompts to get there. If you don't know where you're going - well, that's a bigger problem, and one that no navigation system will solve.

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#177

Post by kriro »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #149
apsec112 wrote: post #65

Headline: "Blame Apps" Evidence given in the article: - "Safety experts say" that it's true. The experts are not named or quoted. No evidence or reasoning is given to support the claim. - Highway fatalities are up this year. However, they're still significantly down from 2007, when the iPhone was first introduced. Mobile has been booming for almost a decade - if we should "blame apps", why hasn't it been a concern be…

Yes but... evidence like this is hard to acquire - the most you can get is convincing circumstantial evidence (if the phone survives get accelerometer and activity use from it. That sounds like a worthwhile branch of forensics) And even if we do it's hard to go from circumstantial to causal But as a driver, I can (un)happily attest that I am distracted from the road if trying to do anything non trivial with my podcas…

There have been quite a few simulator studies that have shown significantly worse driving for cell phone users. Granted it's a jump from that to the real world. I remember one from a while back that showed that cell phone users were as bad as drunk drivers with a relatively low intoxication but they were bad in different ways (distraction vs. aggression). I'm sure there must be similar studies in real world settings or at least fenced of tracks or something (I only remember because I researched 3d simulation and these studies showed up).

Figuring out the cause of an accident post accident in a methodically clean (and legal) way is probably non-trivial though. I don't think it's horrible to hypothesize that more accidents could be related to some recent tech trend. I'd say texting would be a good variable conduct some research on (as opposed to cell phone calls etc.). Obviously the author went beyond formulating a hypothesis though.

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#178

Post by throwanem »

edgyswingset wrote: post #71
megablast wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh well, as long as you get a cheap ride, who cares if the asshole can't drive and doesn't care about other road users.

A bus ride is cheap. A 20 dollar fare to go 10 miles is expensive.

Very. Uber competes with public transit on availability, speed, and door-to-door service - not on price.

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#179

Post by gsnedders »

gambiting wrote: post #166
chrisrogers wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High speed collisions are a significant source of fatalities, so I wouldn't characterize speeding as a small problem.

High speed != speeding. Of course a collision at 70 or 80mph will have more fatalities on average than a collision at a "city" speed, but I would argue that safe driving in the city should be our priority, not catching people doing 90 on an 80 mph road.

Also, there tend to be far more pedestrians and cyclists in a city who are far more vulnerable even in a low-speed accident than one between two cars.

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#180

Post by ZoFreX »

mnw21cam wrote: post #165
Ntrails wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll check my messages at a traffic light, or flick to the next song whilst driving. I don't see any particular danger in these things (apart from possibly angering the poor bugger behind me if I'm slow to notice the lights change). Much like ye olden days of changing a cassette or tuning the radio - there are times and place to pay less attention. People just need to be sensible.

Do that in the UK in front of a police officer, and expect several points on your licence and a fine. You're only allowed to use a distracting device in similar circumstances as you are allowed to be drunk. Arguing with an officer that you are parked by the side of the road is not sufficient if for example you have the engine on. In some circumstances just sitting in the driver's seat while in possession of the keys…

You have to be kidding. Every week I see people crawl past while using apps, I have never seen a police officer do anything about it.
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