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Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

nytimes.com

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Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#41

Post by ddeck »

miaumiau2 wrote: post #14
toomuchtodo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised people are allowed to use their phones at all; there is a study showing talking on a hands free causes the same attention impairment level as someone under the influence of alcohol.

So you are saying, talking to a passenger "causes the same attention impairment level as someone under the influence of alcohol."? For sure there is a distraction, but it is definitely not on the level you described.

>So you are saying, talking to a passenger "causes the same attention impairment level as someone under the influence of alcohol."?

That is not what they said at all. They are correct in pointing out that there is a great deal of evidence that conversing on a cell phone (even hands free) while driving is as dangerous as being intoxicated while driving.

There have also been studies that investigated why talking hands free on a cell phone is more dangerous than conversing with a passenger. For example:

From "Passenger and cell phone conversations in simulated driving" [1]:

"The results show that the number of driving errors was highest in the cell phone condition; in passenger conversations more references were made to traffic, and the production rate of the driver and the complexity of speech of both interlocutors dropped in response to an increase in the demand of the traffic. The results indicate that passenger conversations differ from cell phone conversations because the surrounding traffic not only becomes a topic of the conversation, helping driver and passenger to share situation awareness, but the driving condition also has a direct influence on the complexity of the conversation, thereby mitigating the potential negative effects of a conversation on driving."

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19102621

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#42

Post by [deleted] »

tajen wrote: post #30
miaumiau2 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are saying, talking to a passenger "causes the same attention impairment level as someone under the influence of alcohol."? For sure there is a distraction, but it is definitely not on the level you described.

Mythbusters tested it! http://news.stanford.edu/thedish/2015/08/21/mythbusters-test... and https://youtu.be/t8LuM92Twm8?t=210 (see the conclusion at 3:28). Result: Driving drunk, with a cellphone or with a hands-free phone were all equally dangerous. I'm as surprised as you must be. They didn't test talking to a passenger, but I'm of the opinion that laws don't forbid what is de-facto considered as normal by most peo…

[deleted]

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#43

Post by m3rc »

et-al wrote: post #12

As an aside, sometimes I wonder about how much more efficient we are today due to smartphones. Places where we've lost time: - at the stoplight, the driver in front of you is too busy looking down to notice the light has changed - in the bathroom, people check social media on the toilet - on the sidewalk, folks walk slower because they're pre-occupied with texting - meeting up with friends, it's more acceptable to be…

Humans have a pretty infinite ability to fill time, and to always find something new they "should" be doing. Early household cleaning appliances like the vacuum sold on promises of freeing up housewife's time to do other things, but people spend just as long cleaning their houses now as they did pre vacuum.

We just sort of... do things, and it's very difficult to map the relationship between an object and its impact on how much time we spend interacting with it

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#44

Post by perseusprime11 »

I've seen so many drivers either texting or using their phones while driving and not paying attention to traffic signals, stop signs, and pedestrian crossings. I wish there was a way to stop smartphones from displaying notifications and other things that distract users.

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#45

Post by Cyph0n »

finid wrote: post #38
Cyph0n wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smartphones, and mobile phones in general, make drivers less attentive to external events while driving. It was fine before that, so I don't see why you think we should be blaming humans?

You have to address the root cause - humans, because before smartphones and their apps, it was being distracted while fiddling with CD/tape players. Eating and applying makeup (women) also contributed. Humans have to recognize that driving demands 100% of their attention.

We will eventually address the root cause; self-driving cars are around the corner. Unfortunately, we cannot do that now. Therefore, we should address the second biggest cause: smartphones.

Besides, eating, doing make-up, and fiddling with a CD player are absolutely nothing compared to what people do on smartphones nowadays while cruising in a hunk of metal at 60 mph.

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#46

Post by viraptor »

bbarn wrote: post #21

I'm of the belief that while phones have contributed, it's just not hard enough to drive anymore. Try driving a manual shift, non power steering vehicle some time and using your phone. That's the world the roads were built for, not this ultra easy, power assisted, auto-speed control, auto-lane control world where you don't even feel the speed difference between 60 and 90. I used to hear people say they couldn't drive…

> I never got that. Isn't driving supposed to be the only thing you're doing while driving?

Kind of. There are different studies showing various kinds of impact. For example: http://content.iospress.com/articles/occupational-ergonomics... "Music seems to alleviate driver stress and mild aggression while at times facilitating performance. However, during other conditions of music, driving performance is impaired."

My own experience is that without music or a podcast in the background I get tired much more quickly. (as in, can do 3h drive without getting exhausted -vs- 1-2h) Because if only thing you have is the engine noise and road ahead, that's the only thing you can focus on, and things really don't change that often. (if your mind doesn't start to wonder / phase out in those conditions - great; mine does) It also helps in the evening a lot. If the whole world is just a cone of light 50m ahead, my mind starts to wonder, or just get sleepy really quickly. Having something unrelated that keeps you mildly interested, but not taking attention seems like a good solution.

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#47

Post by ChristianGeek »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #40
niftich wrote: post #29

Apps are a plausible contributor. But I also noticed that some new cars ship with infotainment systems that consist solely of a (bad) touchscreen; as new cars slowly replace old ones, the number of cars with actual physical buttons for the music player or radio is dwindling. This is awful because the lack of physical buttons prevents the tactile feedback needed to operate the device without having to look at it. Luck…

One thing I miss is my iPod Classic. I used to listen to music in my car and I would feel for the buttons to skip songs. Of course if I needed a newer playlist I would have to wait till the car wasn't moving (red light), now in my newer car I have bluetooth and thankfully it has buttons for skip in the steering wheel. My iPoc Classic is dead though, so I am forced to use my phone, which I wish someone would come out…

The iPod Classic didn't have buttons to skip songs...you used the sides of the click wheel (which, from a tactile standpoint, was better than buttons).

BTW, there are Bluetooth remotes available for the iPhone.

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#48

Post by 88e282102ae2e5b »

yk wrote: post #11

What does a journalist think when he writes something like "biggest spike in traffic death in 50 years"? The NYT even has a nice plot, that clearly shows that there are two, perhaps three significant, spikes in traffic death, and overall traffic death were reduced to a third of the late seventies. I mean I just eyeball the plot, but to me it seems the story is that there is a plateau since ~2010.

Yes. It's just noise. But I guess it's hard to write a story about how nothing has changed in decades.

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#49

Post by bigethan »

As a cyclist in SF, Uber/Lyft drivers are the most dangerous thing going. They're driving by staring at their phone's map for directions and pickup/dropoff. Once they stop, they stare at their phone for the next ride. Very little situational awareness.

It'd be nice if there was some sort of way for them to indicate they drive erratically. Perhaps by painting their cars all yellow or something...

Re: Biggest Spike in Traffic Deaths in 50 Years? Blame Apps

#50

Post by niftich »

bbarn wrote: post #21

I'm of the belief that while phones have contributed, it's just not hard enough to drive anymore. Try driving a manual shift, non power steering vehicle some time and using your phone. That's the world the roads were built for, not this ultra easy, power assisted, auto-speed control, auto-lane control world where you don't even feel the speed difference between 60 and 90. I used to hear people say they couldn't drive…

In all fairness, the 65-70 mph posted on most rural interstates is usually an uneventfully featureless speed, on uneventful, featureless roads. Meanwhile the urban grandfathered interstates are like NASCAR with a concrete wall to one side, and ruthless traffic inches to your side. And even sometimes on a suburban parkway signed for 45, with four lanes going the same way, you fear for your life as SUVs heading home from work weave around you to get two cars ahead.

There is a wide variance in driving difficulty throughout the day, even on the same stretch of road, and varying with the amount and nature of traffic, the sun in your eyes, wind, the weather. And as you say, driver assist and safety systems like widespread adaptive cruise control, electronic stability control, blind spot warning, emergency brake assist, and curtain airbags encourage a style of driving that's 'not truly defensive' at best, oblivious at worst. Because why not go the speed limit if cars are so safe and they've got your back?

This isn't misplaced nostalgia for the days when driving was more dangerous, but I do believe as cars get safer, situational awareness worsens and riskier behaviors are less likely to result in serious accidents -- so some drivers continue to take more risks.

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