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Chevrolet Bolt EV Is the 2017 Motor Trend Car of the Year

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Re: Chevrolet Bolt EV Is the 2017 Motor Trend Car of the Year

#101

Post by honkhonkpants »

awjr wrote: post #26
ferongr wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most electric cars lack a variable-ratio transmission. At some point and you only have the final drive to reduce the speed of the electric motor. The final drive has to strike a balance between torque for negotiating inclines and top speed, as the electric motor cannot rev to infinity, neither can the power systems handle infinite power though them. An electric car with a two-ratio gearbox would be ideal for both tak…

One of the concerns I have is that many of the EVs that are being released are not capable of towing significantly. I own a horse and we need something that can tow a braked 3.5T trailer. This market in the EU is primarily serviced by diesel 4x4s. I can see a future where the diesel engine is banned and only at that point will something fall out of the woodwork to cope with that towing capacity.

Doesn't seem specific to electrics. I owned several trucks that couldn't tow that trailer. Towing capacity has more to do with the frame, brakes, and cooling than it does with energy and power. Still I think someone will make series hybrid pickups at some point. They already make big rigs that way.

Re: Chevrolet Bolt EV Is the 2017 Motor Trend Car of the Year

#102

Post by mikeash »

phkahler wrote: post #81
Roritharr wrote: post #3

I wonder where the top Speed Limit comes from, is it battery cooling or artificial limiting to proclaim a better Range? In Germany that number raised a few eyebrows.

>> I wonder where the top Speed Limit comes from... Gear ratio. It says the motor spins to 8800rpm which is high but not crazy high. Given a top speed of the motor the gear ratio will determine the top speed of the car. They may have optimized it for better acceleration at the expense of top speed. Many people in the US never drive that fast so it's not a bad tradeoff. If you're wondering about having multiple gear r…

I believe that multiple gear ratios could make sense for high-end EVs. For example, the Model S P100D's top speed of 155MPH is pretty low for a car of such power and low-end acceleration. And its acceleration tends to fall off at higher speeds (if you watch drag races against high-end ICE cars, the Tesla tends to stomp them initially, then the ICE car starts to catch up after a few seconds) and I have heard that being able to change gear ratios would help with that, although I certainly could be misinformed.

Re: Chevrolet Bolt EV Is the 2017 Motor Trend Car of the Year

#103

Post by honkhonkpants »

vinay427 wrote: post #89
35bge57dtjku wrote: post #37

A car that would leave you with about a $600/month payment is 'for the masses'?

"The federal EV tax credit of $7,500 gets the price down to less than $30,000" [1] "the estimated average transaction price (ATP) for light vehicles in the United States was $33,666 in March 2016." [2] A car that costs less than the median purchase price for new vehicles in the US seems pretty close to "for the masses" to me. It's at least in the running for more than half of all new car buyers in terms of price (not…

You jumped from mean to median. The /median/ new car price in this country is about $22k.

Re: Chevrolet Bolt EV Is the 2017 Motor Trend Car of the Year

#104

Post by mikeash »

Klathmon wrote: post #44
ollie87 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extra battery in the floor of the trailer? Hooks into the car and gives it some extra juice, why wouldn't that work?

IIRC it's not the battery power as much as it is the cooling. Many of the parts on electric cars overheat when pushed pretty quickly, and while adding cooling similar to a traditional ICE seems to be the answer, it adds even more weight and complexity to a platform which is already fighting to save every oz. Even the Tesla Model S can't do more than a single lap around many tracks without overheating.

I have heard that the more recent Model Ss (Models S?) are a lot better about being able to keep up with power output on tracks, although what you say was definitely true for a long time.

Re: Chevrolet Bolt EV Is the 2017 Motor Trend Car of the Year

#105

Post by vinhboy »

sebnukem2 wrote: post #100
brightball wrote: post #38

I still don't understand why anyone would buy a Bolt (or a Tesla) over a Volt. Since I heard about the Volt initially back in 2006, it was the most logical and practical approach to powering a vehicle that I'd ever heard. Eliminate gas usage on 95% of your driving, but have gas available for long range and fast refueling against the entire infrastructure of the US. Pure EV's are nothing more than "around town" cars i…

I totally agree with you. The Volt seems like the perfect car, but I ultimately picked the Prius over the Volt for 2 reasons: the Prius looks a lot better and, more importantly, has a lot more interior space that I need. The Volt felt both heavy and cramped, like a flawed first generation product. The 2nd gen Volt is a big improvement.

I also picked a Prius EV. It think that was a mistake. A Volt would have made my EV driving percentage way higher.

Re: Chevrolet Bolt EV Is the 2017 Motor Trend Car of the Year

#106

Post by jseliger »

vinay427 wrote: post #89
35bge57dtjku wrote: post #37

A car that would leave you with about a $600/month payment is 'for the masses'?

"The federal EV tax credit of $7,500 gets the price down to less than $30,000" [1] "the estimated average transaction price (ATP) for light vehicles in the United States was $33,666 in March 2016." [2] A car that costs less than the median purchase price for new vehicles in the US seems pretty close to "for the masses" to me. It's at least in the running for more than half of all new car buyers in terms of price (not…

A car that costs less than the median purchase price for new vehicles in the US seems pretty close to "for the masses" to me. It's at least in the running for more than half of all new car buyers in terms of price (not in size or amenities, obviously).

TCO for electrics is also likely to be lower: http://seekingalpha.com/article/543861-report-shows-lower-to... and their total lifespan is likely to be higher, even taking into account a battery swap after 10 - 20 years.

Re: Chevrolet Bolt EV Is the 2017 Motor Trend Car of the Year

#107

Post by sebnukem2 »

ohstopitu wrote: post #57

This is a pet peeve of mine, but I don't get why cars need to change design (subjective: and make them ulgy) just because they are EVs? Tesla showed the world that a car could look like a "car" and still be electric. I'm all for innovations in design, but weird/ugly designs are also a reason that stops people from buying electric cars.

The Bolt is just a beautiful car, more so than the Tesla model 3. I'm glad they make EVs that don't look like Buicks or LeBarons.

Re: Chevrolet Bolt EV Is the 2017 Motor Trend Car of the Year

#108

Post by JBReefer »

rdm42116 wrote: post #77
pmarreck wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leasing is a thing

Still too much, when you could probably lease a civic for way less

Is it less than you pay {Civic monthly lease + (Civic Monthly Gas Cost - Bolt Electricity Cost)}??

Honest question! It seems like a critical mark for GM to hit with such an odd looking vehicle.

Re: Chevrolet Bolt EV Is the 2017 Motor Trend Car of the Year

#109

Post by audunw »

gordon_freeman wrote: post #84
brightball wrote: post #38

I still don't understand why anyone would buy a Bolt (or a Tesla) over a Volt. Since I heard about the Volt initially back in 2006, it was the most logical and practical approach to powering a vehicle that I'd ever heard. Eliminate gas usage on 95% of your driving, but have gas available for long range and fast refueling against the entire infrastructure of the US. Pure EV's are nothing more than "around town" cars i…

Or Prius Prime? The new version of prius plug in would give epa estimated 133 mpge which is the highest number for any car sold in USA. So if you really consider efficiency and even carbon emissions then that is the car one should get. A good amount of electricity is generated in America by coal based power plants so in a way, comparing mpge numbers make more sense while thinking about reducing the carbon emissions.…

I'd just like to add that mpge does not really make sense for EVs.

There simply aren't enough EVs to make any significant impact on short-term carbon emission. All the EVs produced by the end of this decade won't make even a tiny dent. You can't really think of EV as relevant at all in the short term. You have to think of it as part of a two-decade long strategic plan.

The same is partly true for PHEV with sufficient battery capacity.

So the question is really, how is electricity generated in 20 years?

I think there's reason to be optimistic about that question.

In general, when it comes to the environment: don't mistake the forest for the trees.

But I see that, ironically, both environmentalists and deniers like to focus on carbon emissions on EVs (equivalent or not). Environmentalists like to say that they're "zero-emission" to boost their ego, while deniers like to show worst-case scenarios to try to make EVs no better than gasoline cars. But if you're calculating the carbon emission of an EV today, you've already missed the point.

Re: Chevrolet Bolt EV Is the 2017 Motor Trend Car of the Year

#110

Post by mikeash »

mikkael wrote: post #33

Surely a nice car. But I wonder where all this electrical power for all those electrical cars in the future will come from? Probably from nuclear power plants with their still unresolved nuclear waste problematics - not even speaking about nuclear accidents. From this point of view I have some doubts that mass adoption of affordable electrical cars will be beneficial for the environment...

Nuclear waste isn't a big deal, from a technical perspective. Find a good, geologically stable location, encapsulate the waste in strong containers, and put it there. The quantities are so small that it's not a big undertaking. The real problem is dealing with people's overblown fears, like how you have to do crazy things because the waste remains dangerous for tens of thousands of years. Never mind that lots of more commonplace industrial waste remains dangerous forever and we don't take anything like the same sorts of precautions.

But solar and wind are really starting to take hold, so I don't think you have to worry a whole lot either way. They have some big advantages over nuclear even if you ignore unfounded fears, such as being able to install them in small quantities rather than requiring billions of dollars and years of construction. And the cost is dropping rapidly, so that it'll be cheaper than nuclear soon if it isn't already.

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