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Micro web-framework for COBOL

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Re: Micro web-framework for COBOL

#61

Post by greenshackle2 »

agconti wrote: post #48
greenshackle2 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was once a programmer who wrote software for personal computers. "Look at how well off I am here," he said to a mainframe programmer who came to visit. "I have my own operating system and file storage device. I do not have to share my resources with anyone. The software is self-consistent and easy-to-use. Why do you not quit your present job and join me here?" The mainframe programmer then began to describe his…

From the Tao of programming, 1.2: The Tao gave birth to machine language. Machine language gave birth to the assembler. The assembler gave birth to the compiler. Now there are ten thousand languages. Each language has its purpose, however humble. Each language expresses the Yin and Yang of software. Each language has its place within the Tao. But do not program in COBOL if you can avoid it.

4.2:

The Master was explaining the nature of Tao to one of his novices.

"The Tao is embodied in all software -- regardless of how insignificant," said the Master.

"Is the Tao in a hand-held calculator?" asked the novice.

"It is," came the reply.

"Is the Tao in a video game?" asked the novice.

"It is even in a video game," said the Master.

"Is the Tao in the DOS for a personal computer?" asked the novice.

The Master coughed and shifted his position slightly. "The lesson is over for today," he said.

Re: Micro web-framework for COBOL

#62

Post by krylon »

pjmlp wrote: post #55
mikestew wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if I looked at it as a general-purpose language like C++/C#/Java, then, yes, it sucks really hard. Plenty of people get by swinging a hammer all day and not a Swiss army knife. COBOL is one person's hammer. For me, at one point, it was RPG. You think COBOL is "domain specific"? RPG has the DSL right in the name: "Report Program Generator". Yuppers, RPG is a report writer. And when you're writing banking software or t…

FoxPro! :) I was in the other side of xBase languages, did some dBase III Plus stuff, Clipper Summer '87 followed by OOP with Clipper 5.x, hurray! High level programming in MS-DOS and were just perfect for crushing out database frontends.

In my first job after my training, I had a boss who had practically written a couple of bespoke line-of-business applications for customers using FoxPro.

Three years ago I had to do some maintenance on an old-ish C++ application (also a one-of-a-kind-thing) that used a dBase backend for storage. I was lucky, though, the code was very well-written and, let's say, humble - it avoided unneccessary complexities whenever possible, and even without comments or any other documentation, I was able to figure out how it worked (at least the part that I was supposed to modify).

Part of the fun was getting a development environment to work with an ancient version of Visual Studio, but the second fun part was accessing that dBase database. I tried a couple of programs, none of them overly helpful, until I realized that ____ing Excel could open them. I don't know how well Excel supports interacting with these, but it worked well enough for inspection. ;-)

Re: Micro web-framework for COBOL

#63

Post by mikestew »

krylon wrote: post #62
pjmlp wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FoxPro! :) I was in the other side of xBase languages, did some dBase III Plus stuff, Clipper Summer '87 followed by OOP with Clipper 5.x, hurray! High level programming in MS-DOS and were just perfect for crushing out database frontends.

In my first job after my training, I had a boss who had practically written a couple of bespoke line-of-business applications for customers using FoxPro. Three years ago I had to do some maintenance on an old-ish C++ application (also a one-of-a-kind-thing) that used a dBase backend for storage. I was lucky, though, the code was very well-written and, let's say, humble - it avoided unneccessary complexities whenever…

Excel should have worked just fine. The DBF format is not hard to understand, and it was documented in the manual that came with (IIRC) both dBase and FoxPro (I can still picture the page in my head from the FoxBase+ manual). Just a header with a record count and some field definitions, then the data. I haven't tried, but I bet with the docs in front of me I could write a parser in any number of languages in about 30 minutes, 30 minutes more to write to the DBF without corrupting it. You're on your own for indices, I never had to crack that nut. :-)

Re: Micro web-framework for COBOL

#64

Post by pjmlp »

mikestew wrote: post #63
krylon wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my first job after my training, I had a boss who had practically written a couple of bespoke line-of-business applications for customers using FoxPro. Three years ago I had to do some maintenance on an old-ish C++ application (also a one-of-a-kind-thing) that used a dBase backend for storage. I was lucky, though, the code was very well-written and, let's say, humble - it avoided unneccessary complexities whenever…

Excel should have worked just fine. The DBF format is not hard to understand, and it was documented in the manual that came with (IIRC) both dBase and FoxPro (I can still picture the page in my head from the FoxBase+ manual). Just a header with a record count and some field definitions, then the data. I haven't tried, but I bet with the docs in front of me I could write a parser in any number of languages in about 30…

Yes, sometime around 1992 I got a Turbo Pascal unit as shareware, that could handle them.

Indexes were some form of B+ Trees.

Back in those days I toyed with the idea of porting it to Turbo Pascal for Windows, but then never got to do it actually.

Re: Micro web-framework for COBOL

#65

Post by groovy2shoes »

kpil wrote: post #32
krylon wrote: post #22

I once had the pleasure to meet a young person (~30 years old at the time) who had learned to program at a bank, so I had to ask her about COBOL. Her reply was interesting, if I looked at it as a general-purpose language like C++/C#/Java, then, yes, it sucks really hard. But if you look at COBOL as a DSL for building specific business applications, it does not look all that bad. Having never used COBOL beyond a simpl…

I don't buy the DSL argument, as it's not more suitable for any domain than any other language unless shuffling COBOL specific data structures from a DL/1 database counts as a domain. Interestingly, Lisp is (slightly) older than COBOL and is actually truly living up to the DSL thing - at least nowadays. Both languages are actually centered around data structures - kind of, but while COBOL is massively built on fixed…

The Scheme of today is extremely different from the Scheme of 40 years ago. Comparing the language of R0RS and R1RS with R5RS, you'll see just how different they are. I'd say that "modern" Scheme is due more to Clinger than to Sussman & Steele!

My point is that, yes, Scheme as a concept originated in the mid 70s, but it has been updated many times over the years. The Scheme of today isn't 40 years old.

Re: Micro web-framework for COBOL

#66

Post by groovy2shoes »

greenshackle2 wrote: post #25
t1m wrote: post #17

I remember showing my "systems analyst" brother-in-law my second year university schedule when I was planning which courses I would take that fall. "You don't have any Cobol, PL/1, OS360 Assembly Language or APL on here", he observed. "I am going to focus on C, Unix and operating systems. I want to write compilers for microprocessor based computers". When he finished laughing, he called me "unemployable" and said, "m…

There was once a programmer who wrote software for personal computers. "Look at how well off I am here," he said to a mainframe programmer who came to visit. "I have my own operating system and file storage device. I do not have to share my resources with anyone. The software is self-consistent and easy-to-use. Why do you not quit your present job and join me here?" The mainframe programmer then began to describe his…

In 1999, a COBOL programmer, tasked with updating bank software for the year Y2K switch, became overwhelmed.

"Look at all of this code!" he exclaimed. "I'll never be able to fix it all in time!"

Horrified by the media depictions of apocalypse brought by financial meltdown and software-launched nuclear warheads, all because of the Y2K bug, he became very anxious.

So, he went to the cryogenic freezing facility and told them, "Wake me up when Y2K is over."

He laid in the cryotube and gently fell asleep as the cold began to overtake him.

The next thing he knew, he was laying on a bed in a warm room, bright lights and white walls giving the room a certain sterility. A doctor in a lab coat was standing over him holding a clipboard.

"Oh, thank heavens!" said the programmer. "We've made it out alive!"

"Yes," said the doctor. "The year is 2999, and it says in your chart you know COBOL?"

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