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Visual Studio for Mac

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Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#411

Post by sundvor »

userbinator wrote: post #263
coldtea wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a touch typist, can you please explain how function keys are particularly relevant to touch typing? Stepping through the debugger is not typing, and function keys change role according to the selected app anyway. And when they are system function keys (brightness, volume, etc) they are even more irrelevant to typing and/or touch typing. Besides, there's nothing particularly hard about finding a touch based F6 key…

You can feel the boundaries of physical keys, unlike virtual ones on a touchscreen. The nubs on F and J serve a similar aligning purpose as, and enhance the functionality of, the interkey gaps on the function key row. Stepping through the debugger is not typing, I disagree. E.g. when you're deciding to step in vs. step past vs. step out vs. run etc.; finding the right key is extremely important. ...and I challenge an…

Thanks, you answered the question perfectly. I never look at the keyboard whilst typing normally. I have transitioned to using Visual Studio 2015 in the last year, and am now also developing my muscle memory of the function keys.

I use a Logitech G910 keyboard (love those Romer G switches now, even though it took a while), and e.g. setting a break point with F9 is easy as it's the first key of the third block. For a debugging session, the rest follow - I can rest my fingers on the buttons and just step through / skip over etc - no need to look at all, the focus staying on the code.

Actually knowing when I press the button too is extremely important; there's no mistaking the action on a physical keyboard.

I also have a X1 Carbon laptop, the first gen. Fantastic keyboard (and thanks to getting the i7/8/256 version which was rather outstanding back then, it still serves me well today even though the 8gb is getting limiting). In its 2nd iteration, they went for capacitive function keys, much to just about everyone's chagrin. Thankfully, Lenovo listened to feedback and in its the 3rd generation the function keys are back to normal, i.e. same as mine. If they bring a 32gb model out by the time I feel I need to upgrade, I'll probably look at another one (in 1-2 years).

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#413

Post by coldtea »

vetinari wrote: post #332
coldtea wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a touch typist, can you please explain how function keys are particularly relevant to touch typing? Stepping through the debugger is not typing, and function keys change role according to the selected app anyway. And when they are system function keys (brightness, volume, etc) they are even more irrelevant to typing and/or touch typing. Besides, there's nothing particularly hard about finding a touch based F6 key…

There are many applications, that do use F-keys for shortcuts. Not only debuggers, like others mentioned. But also some popular file managers (windows: Far, Total Commander; linux and osx: Midnight Commander). When using these applications, I can copy files using F5 - and I know it is F5 without looking, because it is in the middle and has an empty space to the left. Similarly with F8 (delete) - in the right region,…

>When using these applications, I can copy files using F5 - and I know it is F5 without looking, because it is in the middle and has an empty space to the left. Similarly with F8 (delete) - in the right region, has space to the right.

Well, no such space on the physical keyboard I'm using now. Not after F5, and not after F8.

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#414

Post by tw04 »

adamlett wrote: post #334
tw04 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It kind of is... this reminds me very much of moving from a blackberry to an iPhone. Sure, the features of the iPhone were great, but for my (at the time) primary purpose of using the device for sending emails, it as a MASSIVE step backwards. I could touch type nearly as fast on a blackberry as on a regular keyboard. Moving to a touchscreen meant I had to look at the screen while typing. It slowed me down tremendousl…

It's an interesting comparison, but IMO not that apt. Going from a physical keyboard to a touch screen, something is definitely lost (even though much is also gained). The removal of the function keys will at worse force people to memorise different hot keys (any reason why the number row could not serve the same purpose exactly as well?), and at best it will make providers of IDEs and other productivity software rev…

They aren't just function keys. Losing the tactile feedback of volume and screen brightness, while not THE END OF THE WORLD will very quickly become an every day annoyance for me. In order to... have a contextual touchscreen that forces me to take my eyes of the monitor to use?

Sorry, I'm just not seeing the draw. I'm also struggling to buy into the "not everyone is a touch typist" excuse. Anyone under the age of about 40 has had a typing class. Anyone under the age of about 25 (who is using a computer for their job/attending college) knew they were going to spend the rest of their life using a computer and probably paid attention.

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#415

Post by brazzledazzle »

bardworx wrote: post #390
brazzledazzle wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, that's a helpful review. It has me wondering if it might benefit from the hardware improvements enough that swapping would be noticeably faster.

I'm thinking along the same lines. If you're interested in other tests/simulations and I can run them side by side and report back. Today I've ran 2 VMs, about 20 tabs, a large project loaded into an IDE and two shell sessions without any noticeable slowdown.

I appreciate the offer, thanks. If you have a desktop VM (Windows or OS X) laying around I'd be interested in how responsive they are with enough of them running to make things interesting. They tend to be the most demanding/least tolerant VMs I have to deal with. But don't bother unless you're really into it.

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#416

Post by HNSucksAss »

Touche wrote: post #309
coldtea wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who are you (or anyone else) to decide what works best for me? Am I not capable of making my own decisions? Most people aren't -- from politics to personal finances and relationships, there are tons of bad decisions everywhere one looks. (Including my decision to answer this comment some would say -- heh). We have schools, best practices, guidelines, standards etc, to try to enforce some good decisions upon people.…

> That said, if one feels strongly about it, there's always the decision NOT to buy such a laptop. And many people are making that decision, so what seems to be your problem with this?

That's a smug answer that is a crock. Vendors need to be called out on regressive, anti-user and anti-industry moves, or WE ALL lose.

When one vendor gets away with this shit, others follow suit, and soon there is no well-designed or high-quality option available.

Look at the preponderance of idiotic glossy, painted plastic car bumpers. BUMPERS: Consider the name.

And MUSIC-CENTRIC phones with NO HEADPHONE JACK. That's just stupid.

Apologism and excuse-making are driving everything backward. Witness the latest U.S. election.

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#417

Post by adamlett »

tw04 wrote: post #414
adamlett wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an interesting comparison, but IMO not that apt. Going from a physical keyboard to a touch screen, something is definitely lost (even though much is also gained). The removal of the function keys will at worse force people to memorise different hot keys (any reason why the number row could not serve the same purpose exactly as well?), and at best it will make providers of IDEs and other productivity software rev…

They aren't just function keys. Losing the tactile feedback of volume and screen brightness, while not THE END OF THE WORLD will very quickly become an every day annoyance for me. In order to... have a contextual touchscreen that forces me to take my eyes of the monitor to use? Sorry, I'm just not seeing the draw. I'm also struggling to buy into the "not everyone is a touch typist" excuse. Anyone under the age of abo…

Sorry, I'm just not seeing the draw

"Sorry, but I'm just not interested in this motorized wagon you've invented. It's noisy and ugly. Could you please just go and invent me a faster horse instead?"

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#418

Post by tangue »

jeffwass wrote: post #123
tangue wrote: post #48

Visual Studio for python is really great. Any hints the Python tools will be ported/compatible with the Mac version ?

I'm curious if you've tried Visual Studio Code for Python on Mac? I've heard good things about it, and just this past weekend tried it out, but couldn't even get a simple Hello World working on it for Python. I installed the common Python extension for it (Don Jayamanne's), but seems like it couldn't Link with the Python toolset. Ie, I could edit scripts with Python highlighting and autocomplete, but couldn't get the…

I didn't manage too. And I'm a bit confused since it seems simple according to other posts in this thread.

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#419

Post by vetinari »

coldtea wrote: post #413
vetinari wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many applications, that do use F-keys for shortcuts. Not only debuggers, like others mentioned. But also some popular file managers (windows: Far, Total Commander; linux and osx: Midnight Commander). When using these applications, I can copy files using F5 - and I know it is F5 without looking, because it is in the middle and has an empty space to the left. Similarly with F8 (delete) - in the right region,…

> When using these applications, I can copy files using F5 - and I know it is F5 without looking, because it is in the middle and has an empty space to the left. Similarly with F8 (delete) - in the right region, has space to the right. Well, no such space on the physical keyboard I'm using now. Not after F5, and not after F8.

You are exception, then :)

Yes, there are such keyboards, from the popular ones Thinkpad [TX][245]30 series for example and the previous rMBP too. However, most keyboards do have the spacing.

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#420

Post by Angostura »

sundvor wrote: post #177
Angostura wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would presume that if the application hasn't been updated for the Touchbar, the Touchbar would default to displaying ESC F1 F2 F3 F4 etc..

As a touch typist, can you please explain how that would work for me?

It's the same argument from the Blackberry v iPhone days. Maybe not great for you. The question is - for most people are configurable F keys more useful than touch-typable F keys.
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