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Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

washingtonpost.com

171–180 of 455 posts

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people own cars. One the anticipated benefits of self-driving cars is that they can be shared rather than owned. If they are shared they can be constantly in use rather than parked and when parked do not need to be parked where they were last used.

Why are self-driving cars more easily or more likely shared than human-driven cars? Someone else pointed out that they cost less to operate, but I wonder how much will change. People like owning things, including nice cars.

A fleet of self driving cars equal to the maximum needed simultaneously can move around ferrying first one person then another to their destination.

Car ownership requires at worst 1 car per person.

Carpooling requires a lot of planning and only works for with individuals with similar scheduled routes and requires the humans to include the time to drop off additional passengers or pass control of the vehicle to another for additional legs of the trip. Totally aside from the logistical nightmare it requires people to trust others with an asset worth thousands or 10s of thousands of dollars.

Imagine you pick 10 people. Getting them all to and from work shopping etc requires 10 cars at worst in the ownership strategy.

Imagine that carpooling might reduce it to 8 or 9. Its extremely likely that a route could be plotted for 3-5 cars to take all to their desired destinations both by moving back and forth for trips that don't coincide and by making slightly longer trips that move multiple parties.

Now imagine that you have the entire population and can match all the rides that coincide and include an entire range of vehicles including buses to get everyone from A to B maybe you can reduce this to 1-2 per commuter.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#172
post #166
post #16

There was a study a while back that showed that the USA has eight times as many parking spaces as it has cars. At first that seems crazy, but it makes sense if you think about the fact that all the places you go in a day need to have enough parking to meet their peak demand all year, so places like malls have huge empty lots most of the year until Christmas rolls around. And then there is the spot your car is in at w…

Also roads are built for the peak consumption. Outside the peak, there's generally excess capacity quietly eating away space from pedestrians and human beings.

This is VERY MUCH a falsehood. Have you ever commuted during the very ironically named 'rush hour'. (Everyone would much rather go fast, and it usually takes much longer than an hour)

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#173
I'm wondering what are the myriad other ways that low-income folks are silently taxed?

higher interest rates, housing codes, regulatory compliance (leading to higher prices), and possibly even the minimum wage come to mind (I'm sure there's much more), thus always keeping "the basics" expensive enough to be out of reach.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#174
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robocar for $100 a week would be $5600 a year. So individual car would be still cheaper in such case... :) Unless you start factoring in time that you were away for vacation and didn't pay for that week etc. But that'd be some Adobe-level subscription madness...

Average owned car cost is $725/month according to the AAA[1]. [1] http://exchange.aaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Your-Driv...

Just pointed out a math flaw in parent post. It's obvious where both numbers were pulled from...

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#175
post #98

This topic is discussed at length in the book, "Green Metropolis". It's part of a bigger issue of always putting cars first. You can't build a large building without first doing a traffic study. If you bring too much traffic, you can't build it. Never mind that traffic is about the only cost in America that you can increase to make public transportation more appealing. Generally U.S. building codes include a maximum…

I don't think that many people actually want higher population densities.

most people won't publicly claim that they want population control (e.g. one child policies or similar) either, so i think many people want a bunch of things that aren't compatible.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#176
post #119

Most of the commenters on this thread don't appear to have lived in a country with the opposite problem. Consider what happens when development and car ownership expands in a country without adequate government parking mandates. You routinely find at least two road lanes blocked by parked traffic because buildings don't have adequate parking. This leads to very slow bumper to bumper traffic (try Bangalore, Mumbai, Ca…

I'm afraid that you are comparing pears and oranges. If you want to be fair, compare American cities with European cities. In Barcelona or the center of Copenhagen, there are not free parking spaces. And I can assure you that there are not the traffic issues that you are mentioning in your comment... It's quite on the contrary, actually.

Well if you want to compare that way to the cities mentioned in the list, the only appropriate comparisons in Europe are London and Paris which definitely have parking, traffic and pollution issues (or had till they started banning vehicles in the center of the cities). Paris even considered banning diesel altogether contrary to the rest of Europe.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_agglomerations_by_po...

Barcelona and Copenhagen arr about an order of magnitude smaller and likely don't even make it into the top 100 cities. In India in casual conversations we would call places with such populations "small towns" :-)

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#177
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Handling cash ain't free. At a minimum, a certain amount must be kept on hand to make change. Then theres insurance on that cash. Then theres the safe (and registers) you have to buy to store the cash. Then theres the transport of the cash to the bank. Also, better hope your cashiers never make a mistake or accept a forged bill.

> Handling cash ain't free. But it's so much cheaper than handling credit cards that many small stores in Germany won't accept any cards at all.

Don't German stores accept debit cards?

The cost is much lower on a debit card transaction.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#178
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be very surprised if shared self driving cars lead to a major reduction in excess parking, or lower the number of traffic jams. People want to do the same things at more or less the same time: Having time off while your social circle is at work is not as fun. Many jobs require customers, and others require entire groups of people to be there together. This means the minimum capacity needed to handle peaks is not…

You're underestimating all of the ways self-driving cars will increase efficiency relative to parking, which are multiplicative. 1. Much higher occupancy per car. Based on my personal observations, at rush hour the average occupancy of a car is something like 1.3. I don't see any reason that can't increase to 2.6 or more without significantly slowing anyone down -- 2x 2. Yes, a lot of people need to get to work at 8,…

Do you think people will prefer to use a self driving car that gets them to the office ten minutes faster or one that meanders around picking up other people and dropping them off?

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#179
post #119

Most of the commenters on this thread don't appear to have lived in a country with the opposite problem. Consider what happens when development and car ownership expands in a country without adequate government parking mandates. You routinely find at least two road lanes blocked by parked traffic because buildings don't have adequate parking. This leads to very slow bumper to bumper traffic (try Bangalore, Mumbai, Ca…

A factor rarely mentioned is heat.

People in tropical climate do not enjoy walking even relatively short distance because of its hot and humid weather during most of the year. Middle-class people in dense tropical cities with traffic problems still buy a car as soon as they can afford it. Coupled with barebone funding for and low quality of public transportation, the traffic problem gets worse and worse as people become more affluent and cities get denser.

Bangkok was a legendary example, where its skytrain only recently helped mitigate the problems for those rich enough to afford a place to stay close to one of its stops.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Handling cash ain't free. But it's so much cheaper than handling credit cards that many small stores in Germany won't accept any cards at all.

Don't German stores accept debit cards? The cost is much lower on a debit card transaction.

Yes, debit cards are more widely accepted than credit cards, but many places take neither. Not just stores, bars and restaurants as well.
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