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Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#151
post #84

So in principle WaPo or anyone else willing except that it is immoral to create regulations about X where people who do not benefit from X end up paying for it ? Will WaPo argue the case to abolish things like college education subsidies where people who never even go to college end up subsidizing those who do ? While WaPo is absolutely right in stating the facts it may or may not be bad for the poor people. I live i…

*accept

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#152
post #98

This topic is discussed at length in the book, "Green Metropolis". It's part of a bigger issue of always putting cars first. You can't build a large building without first doing a traffic study. If you bring too much traffic, you can't build it. Never mind that traffic is about the only cost in America that you can increase to make public transportation more appealing. Generally U.S. building codes include a maximum…

I propose a fundamental principle that should be obvious, but apparently isn't.

Public policy should aim to improve average quality of life in the short, medium, and long terms.

We live in low-population-density areas because we get more, higher quality housing for less money, shorter lines, less crowded public places. We drive instead of taking transit because we get where we're going faster and more comfortably, sitting down, with our personal space bubbles intact.

Everything is tradeoffs. You can already make these tradeoffs for yourself by moving to SF or Manhattan, which is generally ill-advised unless you make so much that the astronomical housing costs don't hurt too badly. Why should the rest of us be required to make these tradeoffs? What are we getting in return? 'Cause it sure isn't better commutes or better homes.

If your argument is long-term sustainability, we have electric cars now and we've had nuclear power for quite some time, and a public policy kick in that direction is, I'd argue, critical to long-term quality of life.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#153
post #98

This topic is discussed at length in the book, "Green Metropolis". It's part of a bigger issue of always putting cars first. You can't build a large building without first doing a traffic study. If you bring too much traffic, you can't build it. Never mind that traffic is about the only cost in America that you can increase to make public transportation more appealing. Generally U.S. building codes include a maximum…

I propose a fundamental principle that should be obvious, but apparently isn't. Public policy should aim to improve average quality of life in the short, medium, and long terms. We live in low-population-density areas because we get more, higher quality housing for less money, shorter lines, less crowded public places. We drive instead of taking transit because we get where we're going faster and more comfortably, si…

Part of the purpose of a public place is for people to be around other people. Considering that, isn't it counterproductive to actively work to make them less crowded?

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#154
post #16

There was a study a while back that showed that the USA has eight times as many parking spaces as it has cars. At first that seems crazy, but it makes sense if you think about the fact that all the places you go in a day need to have enough parking to meet their peak demand all year, so places like malls have huge empty lots most of the year until Christmas rolls around. And then there is the spot your car is in at w…

Interesting. Now you got me thinking more about what things might change with self-driving cars. Will cars offer an "orbiting" mode where they keep driving in a circle until you are ready to be picked up. Will stores offer a driving ring where cars can drive around in circles off the main street in the case where no parking slots are available? Will cars be able to drop you off, and park themselves when a space becom…

Driving in a circle still isn't free it either costs gas or electricity. When you park your car you are constrained to park it relatively nearby. Logically your car lacking a parking spot at your location will seek one nearby until it has traveled far enough that it is logical for it to turn around and drive back to you.

In some cases perhaps it will rejoin the pool of available cars and you will picked up by a different car.

Perhaps retailers will be yet more likely to offer to ship selected large or awkward items directly to your home after you have picked them out.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#155
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really get why trams are better than buses. Do they really carry a ton more people than buses? Why are people more likely to ride them? Buses come in short/long/articulated/double-decker sizes and don't need to be on rails or require overhead electrical lines. The only argument I can think of is that you get a smoother ride and no need to burn fuel with a tram. (I've only ridden the trams in one city, and the…

Here's an example of a good tram system: http://dyob.com.au/sites/default/files/u9/96%20North%20Carlt... It's separated from the traffic so it's fast, doesn't have associated tyre and asphalt maintenance costs, and each tram carries over 200 people maximum. The service is frequent - about every five to seven minutes - and much smoother and more comfortable than a bus.

It's the 96 in Melbourne. That particular tram was made entirely in Victoria too. :)

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that many people actually want higher population densities.

Actually, we are seeing a return towards urbanisation globally, which is a positive trends, since it's a vital component for curbing global warming. Residents of NYC use 1/3 as much electricity as their suburban counterparts, use a tiny fraction of the carbon emissions on transportation, and produce less garbage. All without convincing New Yorkers to recycle or drive electric cars. Environmental responsibility is bak…

Residents of NYC pay $3000/mo for 1-bedroom apartments, while their suburban counterparts pay $1000/mo for 3-bedroom houses.

You could buy quite a few solar panels and lease several electric cars for less than it would take to move to NYC.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#157
post #98

This topic is discussed at length in the book, "Green Metropolis". It's part of a bigger issue of always putting cars first. You can't build a large building without first doing a traffic study. If you bring too much traffic, you can't build it. Never mind that traffic is about the only cost in America that you can increase to make public transportation more appealing. Generally U.S. building codes include a maximum…

I don't think that many people actually want higher population densities.

I do! I'm from Austria/Vienna and I love our high density cityscapes. There is no need for a car in cities since you can get anywhere with public transport. I usually use my bike, though, which has a huge part of the city within 20 minutes driving distance. In comparison, when I was working in Santa Clara, CA, there was virtually nothing within 20 minutes and the public transport was next to useless. I'm also not a fan of the huge expressways every other corner. Not my kind of city.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#158
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's an example of a good tram system: http://dyob.com.au/sites/default/files/u9/96%20North%20Carlt... It's separated from the traffic so it's fast, doesn't have associated tyre and asphalt maintenance costs, and each tram carries over 200 people maximum. The service is frequent - about every five to seven minutes - and much smoother and more comfortable than a bus.

Los Angeles had dedicated bus lanes seperate from traffic (orange line) which is almost as good as rail for a fraction of the cost of laying track.

> as good as rail for a fraction of the cost of laying track

It's really not. Even long/double decker buses carry a fraction of the people a streetcar can.

Streetcars are still faster given other things being equal (dedicated lanes).

The maintenance of streetcars is much better. You have no tyers, fully electric engines, high torque and lower energy consumption.

Buses are good for short term routes, but long term a rail network will always win out in capacity and energy efficiency.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that many people actually want higher population densities.

Actually, we are seeing a return towards urbanisation globally, which is a positive trends, since it's a vital component for curbing global warming. Residents of NYC use 1/3 as much electricity as their suburban counterparts, use a tiny fraction of the carbon emissions on transportation, and produce less garbage. All without convincing New Yorkers to recycle or drive electric cars. Environmental responsibility is bak…

Does that include the electricity used by the restaurants they eat at instead of cooking at home?

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#160
post #147
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My city don't have trams but there was a political push to build them. However, bus routes were upgraded instead. Result is better than trams IMO. Some key points we do: - Popular buses run ever 5-ish minutes during peak times - Some buses have extension and cary a crapload of people. - Problematic spots have bus-only lanes. What is better than tram: - Buses that share only a bit of the route can use those lanes too…

Do you have to sit down on them like normal buses? One of the benefits of trams is the standing part so you can fit more people in. Last time I tried this on a bus the results weren't as good.

Well, I consider it a happy ride if I have a chance to sit down...

Yes, the buses have handles and everything for standing passengers. Wider aisles and stand-only areas instead of more seats too. The inside of the bus look like a tram/metro rather than long distance bus/train.

Yes, emergency stops are not comfortable. Some old lady falls and breaks her hand every few years. But trams have traffic lights and may have to do emergency stop too. Trams probably have less emergency stops per km travelled. But I never considered this a huge issue.

AFAIK, bus service regularly train drivers to drive "nice-to-passengers". Park close to curb, avoid emergency stops, start smoothly etc. I guess there's a risk for this problem, but it seems to be manageable.

Timetable rules may be a big factor too. I heard more bus drivers loose bonuses for driving faster than schedule than for being (unreasonably) late..

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